Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
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Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
- Paul
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Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
First, let me disclose that in no way, shape, or form am I accusing/suggesting that ANYONE is attempting to cheat/fool/scam/beguile/rip-u-off with these “un-searched” rolls for sale. ALL OF THE POSTS I make on this site should be considered as ‘my opinion only’, & used for educational purposes only.
I am making this post in the ‘errors’ section, as I believe that this is the #1 reason ‘why’ these are purchased.
The first set of pictures show the ‘tools’ used. A count tray, end rollers, & of course the empty ‘pre-formed’ coin tubes. Cost?.....about $18.00 to get started.
Looking closely at picture #6, you can see inside the recessed ‘rolling ring’ of the square plastic “end crimper”. Can you see the small raised ‘bar/nub’? This is the part of the ‘roller’ that ‘curls’ the paper into its doughnut shape as you gently ‘push in & twist’ the tool. Like everything else in life, the more you do it, the better you get……& I have seen some EXPERT work by some of these sellers.
Looking at the picture labeled ‘M’, you will see: ‘factory’ creasing (green arrows), a tight ‘paper split’ (blue lines), & the highest points that are ‘ROUNDED’. This is a factory, as they call it, end crimp. Expert roll makers are not even able to get this ‘true roundness’, due to the bar/nub on the roller we saw in the close-up discussed earlier. They will look close, but if you inspect the pictures closely, the “NON-FACTORY” rolls will show some very faint ‘flatness’(red star) to this top area (NOT STORAGE SMUSH).
I have added captions to the balance of the pictures here that should be self explanatory. If not, ASK.
Have I ever purchased a ‘stacked’ roll before? Yes. Because the ‘end coin’ was a ‘seller unaware’ rare variety. What’s the most I have ever seen a stacked roll sell for? Just over $1700.00 What was it? A roll advertised as a back-2-back BU/MS/RD 1909 VDB Lincoln Cent Roll. What did I see? 2 XF+ low contact, completely cleaned & dipped coins. (Was this a HEAVY SHILL BID AUCTION?..... The second place bidder had a 96% bid ratio for that seller over the past 30 days, a 64 feedback, with 36 bids alone on this 1 item.) Was there a, “possible ‘S’ mintmark” in the description? Of course. Beware, there is a lot of word-play going nowdays. “double die”, “doubling”, “die double”, “with doubling”…….the correct term is “DOUBLED DIE”, for those varieties... Read the descriptions, they are not ‘lying’, per say, as those “coin strikes” go, (letting you, NOT YET educated enough in that area, think that they are rare), these are ‘STRIKING ANOMALIES’, but, back to rolls,….if I have my pre-teen children at home making just 100 of these rolls a week ‘to sell’, & “I close up the end”, it is “un-searched BY ME”? The big pile used to make “the roll” was ‘searched’…….. Purchasing OBW’s (original bank wrapped) ROLLS is a bit of an art form/skill.
Someone at Heritage,…..who??, figured the odds of a roll with BU/MSRD back to back ’09 S VDB’s somewhere around 1:170,000,000.
This is common sense here. I don’t care who you are, if there is a ‘roll’ with a high value “key” end coin showing……you are not going to ‘auction’ it for .99¢ no reserve! Not to mention the most likely damage to the areas of the coin you do not ‘see’ around the rim of the ‘end coin’ in the picture, as well as the opposite side you do not see!.
While a majority of the actual coins within the roll will have most likely been key date/variety searched, there are sellers that buy ‘bulk poundage’, zip search them…& just do this. There will be errors to find. Die state/strike/rub patterns, not recognized by the average collectors often ‘slip on by’, into these rolls…just ask petespockets55, & his ‘roll find’, got the 1917 Lincoln Cent DDO.
Take a few minutes to ‘look at’ the images posted….you should see some distinguishing characteristics that should ‘tip you off’ the ‘roll’ is not a ‘real’, old bank wrapped roll.
I am making this post in the ‘errors’ section, as I believe that this is the #1 reason ‘why’ these are purchased.
The first set of pictures show the ‘tools’ used. A count tray, end rollers, & of course the empty ‘pre-formed’ coin tubes. Cost?.....about $18.00 to get started.
Looking closely at picture #6, you can see inside the recessed ‘rolling ring’ of the square plastic “end crimper”. Can you see the small raised ‘bar/nub’? This is the part of the ‘roller’ that ‘curls’ the paper into its doughnut shape as you gently ‘push in & twist’ the tool. Like everything else in life, the more you do it, the better you get……& I have seen some EXPERT work by some of these sellers.
Looking at the picture labeled ‘M’, you will see: ‘factory’ creasing (green arrows), a tight ‘paper split’ (blue lines), & the highest points that are ‘ROUNDED’. This is a factory, as they call it, end crimp. Expert roll makers are not even able to get this ‘true roundness’, due to the bar/nub on the roller we saw in the close-up discussed earlier. They will look close, but if you inspect the pictures closely, the “NON-FACTORY” rolls will show some very faint ‘flatness’(red star) to this top area (NOT STORAGE SMUSH).
I have added captions to the balance of the pictures here that should be self explanatory. If not, ASK.
Have I ever purchased a ‘stacked’ roll before? Yes. Because the ‘end coin’ was a ‘seller unaware’ rare variety. What’s the most I have ever seen a stacked roll sell for? Just over $1700.00 What was it? A roll advertised as a back-2-back BU/MS/RD 1909 VDB Lincoln Cent Roll. What did I see? 2 XF+ low contact, completely cleaned & dipped coins. (Was this a HEAVY SHILL BID AUCTION?..... The second place bidder had a 96% bid ratio for that seller over the past 30 days, a 64 feedback, with 36 bids alone on this 1 item.) Was there a, “possible ‘S’ mintmark” in the description? Of course. Beware, there is a lot of word-play going nowdays. “double die”, “doubling”, “die double”, “with doubling”…….the correct term is “DOUBLED DIE”, for those varieties... Read the descriptions, they are not ‘lying’, per say, as those “coin strikes” go, (letting you, NOT YET educated enough in that area, think that they are rare), these are ‘STRIKING ANOMALIES’, but, back to rolls,….if I have my pre-teen children at home making just 100 of these rolls a week ‘to sell’, & “I close up the end”, it is “un-searched BY ME”? The big pile used to make “the roll” was ‘searched’…….. Purchasing OBW’s (original bank wrapped) ROLLS is a bit of an art form/skill.
Someone at Heritage,…..who??, figured the odds of a roll with BU/MSRD back to back ’09 S VDB’s somewhere around 1:170,000,000.
This is common sense here. I don’t care who you are, if there is a ‘roll’ with a high value “key” end coin showing……you are not going to ‘auction’ it for .99¢ no reserve! Not to mention the most likely damage to the areas of the coin you do not ‘see’ around the rim of the ‘end coin’ in the picture, as well as the opposite side you do not see!.
While a majority of the actual coins within the roll will have most likely been key date/variety searched, there are sellers that buy ‘bulk poundage’, zip search them…& just do this. There will be errors to find. Die state/strike/rub patterns, not recognized by the average collectors often ‘slip on by’, into these rolls…just ask petespockets55, & his ‘roll find’, got the 1917 Lincoln Cent DDO.
Take a few minutes to ‘look at’ the images posted….you should see some distinguishing characteristics that should ‘tip you off’ the ‘roll’ is not a ‘real’, old bank wrapped roll.
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- Paul
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- Paul
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
Fantastic post with lots of detail and photos of OBW's (Original Bank Wrapped)and not so OBW's. Thank you.
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
i am seeing so many fakes popping up right now.....& i always ask the seller, "may i ask where you got this coin please?"
for those that don't give me some obvious b.s. storyA, most say they 'found it in a roll' they bought on-line.....
when you find these fakes, or low end damaged key dates, these are called "seed coins", or "salted rolls". sellers do this so you to come back for more. i had a buyer that contacted me about 11 'unsearched wheat' rolls they bought....7 out of the 11 rolls had '09S's, 2 had '09 VDB's, & two had early teen MSRB S's.
every one was a fake! i did not even need to see the coins first hand.....i know exactly what/where to look for/at. i know i've posted that info here more than once.
this is just preying on peoples greed,....oops, too honest? (the only reason why you would go back & buy a bunch more rolls is to 'flip them' to make a load of $$, right?)
individuals need to START USING SOME COMMON SENSE.
sad, but the alure of the 'flipping' quick buck (GREED), blinds so many...... :confused:
A. say they bought it at a 'local coin store', or 'took it out of a slab', so on...........
for those that don't give me some obvious b.s. storyA, most say they 'found it in a roll' they bought on-line.....
when you find these fakes, or low end damaged key dates, these are called "seed coins", or "salted rolls". sellers do this so you to come back for more. i had a buyer that contacted me about 11 'unsearched wheat' rolls they bought....7 out of the 11 rolls had '09S's, 2 had '09 VDB's, & two had early teen MSRB S's.
every one was a fake! i did not even need to see the coins first hand.....i know exactly what/where to look for/at. i know i've posted that info here more than once.
this is just preying on peoples greed,....oops, too honest? (the only reason why you would go back & buy a bunch more rolls is to 'flip them' to make a load of $$, right?)
individuals need to START USING SOME COMMON SENSE.
sad, but the alure of the 'flipping' quick buck (GREED), blinds so many...... :confused:
A. say they bought it at a 'local coin store', or 'took it out of a slab', so on...........
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
Excellent thread, Paul! Thanks!
Now, on those fake coins they are seeding these rolls with... can you point out examples and what to look for? Or, are these internal to the roll and unseen "treasures" to be found?
Obviously, continuing to hide identifying information on these sellers. We wouldn't want to slander anyone selling fakes.
Now, on those fake coins they are seeding these rolls with... can you point out examples and what to look for? Or, are these internal to the roll and unseen "treasures" to be found?
Obviously, continuing to hide identifying information on these sellers. We wouldn't want to slander anyone selling fakes.
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
I am not afraid to point out these sellers, they do it all the time, and many have been doing this for years. These sellers know what they're doing and many use their kids or employees to do it for them so they can claim they didn't search or put the coins in rolls of lots.
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
m,mhonzell wrote:Excellent thread, Paul! Thanks!
Now, on those fake coins they are seeding these rolls with... can you point out examples and what to look for? Or, are these internal to the roll and unseen "treasures" to be found?
Obviously, continuing to hide identifying information on these sellers. We wouldn't want to slander anyone selling fakes.
the fakes, are usually the 'inner' coins. that way you 'discover' them as rare ones, "score!".....right? occasionally they put one on the end, but those are usually 'real' ones. cleaned?, rim damaged?, reverse (unseen side) is junk-like?...but always an 'indian cent', 'semi- or key' date, even a 'teaser' coin, like a merc dime, 3 cent nickel or token....just to 'peak your interest'. they are playing to your greed.......THINK, really think about it. ASK YOURSELF, "if this was MY ROLL, would i sell it .99 cents, no reserve auction, without searching the roll first??
as for the 'ones you find'....you need to get them checked out if you are not able to do so yourself WITH 100% CERTAINTY....& remember, SOME OF THESE ARE VERY GOOD FAKES!
- Paul
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
i 'bumped this topic' back to the top due to what i have recently seen at the on-line auctions :s
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- karl.bursa
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
What about the coins that are sold loose, in bulk? I know of a place that indicates those coins as being 40's and 50's wheats, so how would they know that? Is it possible that that's how they get them in bulk?
Thanks
Thanks
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
This is really great, Paul. Thanks so much. I've had mixed luck with roll purchases on line. I had a bulk wheat cent purchase that, if I hadn't been just starting a serious album fill effort, would have really ticked me off. 700 pennies with almost exclusively 40's and 50's and only a sprinkling of 30's. Then I spent a pretty good sum on a 1916 Wheat/1904 Indian single roll and it was absolutely magical. Multiple great coins and album fills I'd been looking for for months. Buyer beware, though - especially with the cheap rolls. Grandpa always used to say to watch out for stuff that looked too good to be true.
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Re: Is My 'Coin Roll' Really UNSEARCHED ??
Thanks for this great info Paul. There is so much corruption out there concerning this. The pics you included really make this a great educational tool.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
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