What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

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RickM
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What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#1 Unread post by RickM »

I was going to send this in for grading. It's a really nice coin overall but I noticed this on her nose. Any idea what happened? BTW...the second image is using a scope since I could not zoom in using the camera on my phone enough to see it.
IMG_4338.jpg
WIN_20230528_17_50_44_Pro.jpg
Thanks,
Rick

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#2 Unread post by pnwmakes »

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#3 Unread post by RickM »

pnwmakes wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:36 pmdamage
That's what I'm thinking too. The coin has only one bag mark on it. It's definitely uncirculated; very frosty, etc.

How do you think it will grade?
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Rick

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#4 Unread post by Paul »

Contact Mark Damage
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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#5 Unread post by RickM »

Paul wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:18 pm Contact Mark Damage
I have to wonder how it could have been contacted only at the nose. Very strange indeed.
Thanks for your input!

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#6 Unread post by Dutch-Tigger »

RickM wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:57 am
Paul wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:18 pm Contact Mark Damage
I have to wonder how it could have been contacted only at the nose. Very strange indeed.
Thanks for your input!
Good Morning and Happy Memorial Day, contact marks can accrue on any place of coins even on the nose only, seen many coins posted here where people had mistaken a "Lincoln Cent"
having a Double Ear Error only to find out its only a well place hit by another coin or some other object. Even some people have the belief that their coin has an RPM only to be told that its only a contact mark as well. Here is a great article on this subject, Have a Great Day sir ;)
https://www.pcgs.com/news/examining-con ... s-on-coins
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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#7 Unread post by RickM »

Dutch-Tigger wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:23 am
RickM wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:57 am
Paul wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:18 pm Contact Mark Damage
I have to wonder how it could have been contacted only at the nose. Very strange indeed.
Thanks for your input!
Good Morning and Happy Memorial Day, contact marks can accrue on any place of coins even on the nose only, seen many coins posted here where people had mistaken a "Lincoln Cent"
having a Double Ear Error only to find out its only a well place hit by another coin or some other object. Even some people have the belief that their coin has an RPM only to be told that its only a contact mark as well. Here is a great article on this subject, Have a Great Day sir ;)
https://www.pcgs.com/news/examining-con ... s-on-coins
Thank you for the comment! I am more worrying whether it will straight grade. I really don't care if it's a MS65 but hoping to get MS62 or better. It's a very nice coin but I don't want it to come back unholdered as "damaged".

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#8 Unread post by Dutch-Tigger »

RickM wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:11 am
Dutch-Tigger wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:23 am
RickM wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:57 am
Paul wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:18 pm Contact Mark Damage
I have to wonder how it could have been contacted only at the nose. Very strange indeed.
Thanks for your input!
Good Morning and Happy Memorial Day, contact marks can accrue on any place of coins even on the nose only, seen many coins posted here where people had mistaken a "Lincoln Cent"
having a Double Ear Error only to find out its only a well place hit by another coin or some other object. Even some people have the belief that their coin has an RPM only to be told that its only a contact mark as well. Here is a great article on this subject, Have a Great Day sir ;)
https://www.pcgs.com/news/examining-con ... s-on-coins
Thank you for the comment! I am more worrying whether it will straight grade. I really don't care if it's a MS65 but hoping to get MS62 or better. It's a very nice coin but I don't want it to come back unholdered as "damaged".
You very welcome, I would want the opinion of Paul, Earle and Daniel as well as others whom know way more knowledgeable on that than me on the slabbing.
I never sent anything to slab....my father made it clear so long ago "why would I pay someone in a smoke filled room to give their opinion on what we already know about the grade of our coins give or take" :lol: He was a fine man and will be giving thanks to him on this Memorial day as he was a Veteran of the Korean War 1951-1953 for him. :pray:
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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#9 Unread post by Earle42 »

...It's a really nice coin overall


If you send this in to PCGS or NGC, by the time you pay all of the costs you will have to shell out about 200.00. Way too many people send in coins thinking they will get a "money grade" slab and end up very much in the hole.

Grading companies are not the natural step to take for a good looking coin. The masses are led to believe this idea by how many coins they see being sold in slabs on eBay plus all the youtube videos. And a lot of people lose a lot of money b/c of it.

See the PM I sent you to save yourself money and a major frustration.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#10 Unread post by Marvic »

Earle42 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 pm
Grading companies are not the natural step to take for a good looking coin. Unfortunately, the masses are led to believe this idea by how many coins they see sold in slabs on eBay, plus all the youtube videos. And a lot of people lose a lot of money b/c of it.
I at this point happen to agree with you Earle.
. . But!
Eventually, ALL collected coins will wind up in a slab sooner or later; if not by you the next to hold those coins will... IMO

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#11 Unread post by Earle42 »

Eventually, ALL collected coins will wind up in a slab sooner or later; if not by you the next to hold those coins will... IMO


I think this may be correct, but hopefully they will be in legitimate slabs having a legitimate grade. The present companies have been taking advantage of the hobby for way too long. When a verifiable method for grading coins is finally implemented (way past due), there will likely be a Beanie Baby effect concerning present slabs.

If the companies decide to have a more honest practice and return to a verifiable system like they abandoned in the 90s, they will promote the fall of current slabs by saying things such as, "now that we can give a one true grade, you cannot be sure your old slabs are accurate."

BTW..they more of less did this very thing when promoting their computer grading systems they implemented in the 90s.

Yet soon after releasing the computer grading systems, they all returned to their systems (that they said were ) using human error. I suspect it was b/c when a coin is given a legitimate and verifiable grade, the shareholders do not like it b/c the very profitable re-slabbing game is no more. The coin always grades the same, so no one pays to re-slab.

This is what my main gripe with them is. If a person ran a business this way they would be blackballed as taking advantage of people.  That, and the fact newbies can too easily get taken for a ride as well...but that is a mostly the fault of the newbie not doing their homework. The companies don't help the situation by not explaining to people why they do what they do.

As long as someone knows all of this, I also do not think anything negative about people collecting slabs. They make a great looking collection, and hobbies are about fun.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#12 Unread post by Marvic »

Thank you, Earle; I agree that grading companies made a big mistake by taking it away from the machine and giving it back to humans..
I think they claimed that these machines had no "Eye Appeal" in grading coins...
Do you think they would acknowledge when they reinstate computers for grading that they would say, "Now we can give one true grade" If so then we all should send our Not so True grade slabs back to them and they should cover the cost...

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#13 Unread post by Earle42 »

Marvic wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:08 pm Thank you, Earle; I agree that grading companies made a big mistake by taking it away from the machine and giving it back to humans..
I think they claimed that these machines had no "Eye Appeal" in grading coins...
Do you think they would acknowledge when they reinstate computers for grading that they would say, "Now we can give one true grade" If so then we all should send our Not so True grade slabs back to them and they should cover the cost...
I always saw the subject of legitimate grading not being able to tell what has eye appeal as a moot point. The thing is that eye appeal is always, and has always been in the hands of the seller and buyer. And then think of how many (legitimately...not rainbows) ugly toned high grade coins are out there!

And actually, the companies said they were going back to the old method b/c people did not trust computers...which was true at the time. But I don't buy that excuse. All the rest of the world was, and did computerize, and yet they never did!

If I am not mistaken, they did say that their 90's computer systems )over which they all paid big bucks to develop) gave the "one true grade" of a coin. The pointing out that the old (now that they had implemented computerized grading) was fraught with human error was also conveniently subtle in saying that slabbed coins were not necessarily correct and people should re-submit them for the one true grade.

I honestly do think an iPhone app could solve the problem. No lighting problem for taking the pictures b/c it's facial recognition is infrared. It takes 30,000 data points in less than a second to match the face and can do it even with or without the person having glasses, a mustache, etc. Either a mathematical algorithm for each coin type (open source and based upon wear percentage, damage to areas, etc. - it could be as thorough as desired) would give a one time verifiable grade or link the app online to an AI that has been programmed by it learning from already graded coins of each type at each grade level. Daniel once had an AI system started with another entity that was good at Morgan dollars.

And if the "picture it took did not give enough clarity (somehow - angled coin?) that also could be tested for and retaken.

It is far past the time these companies should be held responsible. Coin collecting is one of the few hobbies whose "professionals" are still in the 20th century, and I personally believe it is b/c they are a business going where the profits lead.

If I had a million I would set up a project to dethrone them and make a handheld app. But NOT b/c I want to see them gone, I just want to see the coin hobby have a legitimized system for grading coins. Can you imagine being able to buy a coin at a specific grade level and being able to say it is verifiable at that grade level? I once worked in a QC department in the 90s where we sued a computerized system to auto scan and verify the quality of a part using as many data points as we wanted down to a micrometer in size. We programmed it by putting a part on the table and moving it with precision controls setting up what to look for as we went along. That machine could have been set to rate the quality of a coin and done it the same every time.

And our phones are so incredibly much more of a computer than that system could be b/c of current tech.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#14 Unread post by Marvic »

Earle, No wonder you are an Administrator here; you are good at it! :handgestures-thumbup:

Yes, you are right; another reason for removing Computers from their plans was that people did not trust computers.
You know Earle, I'm surprised with so many programmers (new college grad) out there that one of them hasn't programmed an app for our phones that would give us "SOME" close idea as to the grade of a coin and even detect counterfeit with a simple scan....

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#15 Unread post by Earle42 »

i admit I am surprised as well. By then again college years typically are not also hobby years. Life gets in the way at this age. I personally think it's a great way to make a business that would thrive. Even charging 5.00 a pop for downloading it online someone would make a huge profit.

Wouldn't it be nice to go to a show with a phone in hand and know immediately the grade of a coin...and have it always be the same?

But that tech will have to wait for the days when computers/phones can do things like identify set patterns flawlessly, connect to a large bank of knowledge somewhere stored outside of the computer, have cameras capable of many megapixel resolution, be able to have sensors capable of obtaining thousands of bits of instantaneous data, auto focus/photo correction, and...hey...hold it.... :LOL:
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

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Re: What is this on a 2021 Peace Dollar?

#16 Unread post by Marvic »

Well, maybe one of those kids will trip into this website, see this thread and hopefully encourage them to start programming. Maybe a little royalty will come our way. :dance:
:bow-blue: Thank you Earle, for the good dialog!

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