1943 P Strange Nickel - weight is off

[CoinCraze]

Hello everyone; I am clear about the 1943 P nickels. Could someone tell me if a 1943 P WAS NOT SILVER, then what would it weigh?? I could not find anything about that. ??

[CoinCraze]

correction; I m NOT clear about the 1943 P Nickel.

[Iceresistance]

[SensibleSal66]

5 Grams. Why? What does it weigh? Pics please....

[Paul]

Composition: Copper-Silver-Manganese

Mintage: 271,165,000

Weight: 5g

Diameter: 21.2mm

[CoinCraze]

4.65g

[JTCC]

[CoinCraze]

here are some pictures. TY.

[Paul]

4.65g

[JayEff]

Do you have another to compare weights with? Your scale wasn’t zeroed with something on it, was it?
I ask because when my wife does epoxy work, she’ll zero her scale with a cup on it to get a reading on just the material she puts in it.
Just a thought.

[Daniel]

We can’t help you here with this coin, if you don’t think it’s silver then you need to find some to use an XRF device to test the metal composition.

[CoinCraze]

Actually, I have another '43 P and it weighs 5.00g ?

[Paul]

Henning ??

[Earle42]

The details on this coin are too fine for a Henning counterfeit and also does not have the porous Henning look. I have done some study and taken notes on Hennings for a number of years and as far as I have been able to find (from a specialist friend on Hennings), Hennings were made only in '39, '44, 46, and '47.

Maybe this is just a slightly light planchet?

[CoinCraze]

Hello Again;

Following my previous post, I had my 43 P Nickel tested. Remember my coin weighs 4.65g and Please view the attachment below. However, the mystery deepens because I show more silver than there should be ??
I ve got a reading of 50.63 Ag which on a 4.65g coin amounts to 2.354g of Silver. However on a normal coin which would be 5.00g at Silver composition of 35% silver would have 1.75g of Silver ?? I have 0.6g more
Silver on a lighter 4.65g planchet. !!?? Can anyone check my math and comment. Any idea what s going on ??
I will list the amounts of Metals according to the test. Keep in mind we repeated the test and came up with these results. Tolerances are also in the picture.
50.63% Ag of 4.65g coin= 2.354g
44.12% Cu of 4.65g coin= 2.052g
2.01% Mn of 4.65g coin= .094g
2.88% Al of 4.65g coin= .134g
.22% Si of 4,65g coin= .010g
.06% Fe of 4.65g coin= .003g
.08% Zn of 4.65g coin= .004g
Total:........................= 4.65g ???? which is what my coin is exactly.
TY.

[Earle42]

I agree.

But if your scale is OK...

Jefferson nickels
Date: 1942 to 1945
Weight: 5.000 Grams
Tolerance: +/- 0.194 Grams
Diameter: 21.21 (mm)
Composition: 56 Cu, 35 Ag, 9 Mn

4.806 to 5.194.

The XRF would seem to indicate yours could just be a slightly improper alloy mix.

[Daniel]

Someone else found one with this composition and unfortunately no grading company would label it as such. So I am not sure what you can do. Just send it in and let PCGS test it, but it will cost a lot of money.

[CoinCraze]

TY.
Any idea how much would PCGS charge?

[Daniel]

Nope. You have to call them.

[Earle42]

As Daniel suggested, call them.

but just in case, you also have to understand there are other fees they charge (if they don't mention them):

Our member DS coins put together a of grading costs for NGC and PCGS:

Coin slabbing pricing totals for NGC and PCGS.

by coinauctionhelp.com member DSCoins » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:49 pm
https://tinyurl.com/2j47ffe4

NGC pricing costs:
$25.00 Lowest cost membership (required to use NGC)
$19.00 Lowest grading tier (modern)
$44.00 subtotal

$18.00 Error attribution fee
$62.00 Subtotal

$10.00 Handling Fee
$72.00 Subtotal

$27.00 Return shipping
$99.00 Subtotal

$28.00 Register mail cost to ship to NGC
$127.00 Total cost

PCGS pricing costs:
$69.00 lowest membership fee.
$65.00 Cost for error grading
$134.00 Subtotal

$10.00 Handling Fee
$144.00 Subtotal

$28.00 Return Shipping
$172.00 Subtotal

$28.00 Registered mail fee to send
$200.00 Total cost

[Earle42]

As Daniel suggested, call them.

but just in case, you also have to understand there are other fees they charge (if they don't mention them):

Our member DS coins put together a of grading costs for NGC and PCGS:

Coin slabbing pricing totals for NGC and PCGS.

by coinauctionhelp.com member DSCoins » Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:49 pm
https://tinyurl.com/2j47ffe4

NGC pricing costs:
$25.00 Lowest cost membership (required to use NGC)
$19.00 Lowest grading tier (modern)
$44.00 subtotal

$18.00 Error attribution fee
$62.00 Subtotal

$10.00 Handling Fee
$72.00 Subtotal

$27.00 Return shipping
$99.00 Subtotal

$28.00 Register mail cost to ship to NGC
$127.00 Total cost

PCGS pricing costs:
$69.00 lowest membership fee.
$65.00 Cost for error grading
$134.00 Subtotal

$10.00 Handling Fee
$144.00 Subtotal

$28.00 Return Shipping
$172.00 Subtotal

$28.00 Registered mail fee to send
$200.00 Total cost

[CoinCraze]

Thank you everyone. Very helpful information. I just do not know if at the end of it it will be worth doing that ?? Does anyone believe it would be worth doing all that ??

[Earle42]

No.

In fact that will be the answer for most coins people send in. The companies make a lot of money b/c people do not understand the following:

If you enjoy losing money, skip reading the following essay

The Insider's Guide to Using Grading Companies
-or-
Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.

Popular mistaken mindset:
1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.

In general, the coin you have found in circulation is NOT going to make huge profits if slabbed. Way too many people pad the pockets of the companies and get nothing in return b/c they THINK (youtube videos!) they have something rare.

Professional predicting not possible:
2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets slabbed coins back from the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays:

a. Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where allegedly three, but in reality its normally two, graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed and paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.

b. If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (extreme and a bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (extreme and a great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. This subjectivity makes for greater company profits since people resubmit the same coin trying to get a higher (better price when selling) grade. In the 90s the companies, at great expense, created better (their own words) scientific methods not relying upon human opinion. No doubt the large profit from the re-slabbing game fell. The companies abandoned the science and went back to their less accurate systems.

c. It needs be mentioned that the fewer the "money grade" slabs a company assigns, the more prices of said slabs climbs. Thus more business is generated b/c more people pay to slab coins hoping to get that "money grade" slab. And the companies do keep records (accessible online) of how many of the higher graded slabs exist for each coin. While the idea of keeping money grade slabs minimized is speculative, there has been some convincing evidence of this being reality.

But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders

Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies

Error on errors:
3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find and ID an error for you. You must FIRST ID the error yourself, CHECK to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors incorrectly.

Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature as an eye opening example. Sadly, the verifiable data presented from the PCGS website shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.

Cost concerns:
4. B/c people do not understand the businesses, so very many people end up with spending far more money to slab a coin than the coin is worth. The companies profit greatly with membership fees, submission fees, insurance fees, shipping fees and extra (chosen) fees. ANACs does not have all these fees though.


You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.


And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!"

[DSCoins]

No, it is not worth it. Here is why in my opinion it would not be worth it. As in the costs to have a coin graded, NGC=$127.00. You would need to get a grade of MS67 or higher (MS68 is top pop). In the photo you posted with the coin on the scale, is not even close to any MS grade. The same with PCGS. The cost would be $200.00. Once again you would be looking for the coin to grade MS67 or higher (MS68 Top Pop) for it to be worth sending it in. Just like with NGC, your coin would not be even close to a MS grade.

Those on this board, can make recommendations as to what is wrong with it, or if it be worth getting it graded. Please keep in mind there are over 100+ years of combined knowledge giving you advice on your coin. We cannot stop you from sending it in to be graded, that is your choice. I will say to you, what I would say to anyone else. If you have the money to just waste, then go for it. Personally, I have a lot of other uses. I could use it on more important things (Bills).

[CoinCraze]

Thank you all for your wise and eye opening advice. Reading it all I was thinking to myself this would be a much more fun hobby if some of the inconsistencies in grading were worked out better. ??


Thank you.

[Earle42]

Thank you all for your wise and eye opening advice. Reading it all I was thinking to myself this would be a much more fun hobby if some of the inconsistencies in grading were worked out better. ??

If you have not yet read the essay in my signature - it tells of how the companies spent big buck to develop their own legitimate grading system based on a verifiable standard in the 90s. Then all of a sudden the grading companies abandoned their, as they had advertised, more accurate system. They went back to what they had called, while touting the new computer system, the "less accurate" human grading system. The companies said they did this b/c people (in that time period) did not trust computers. Yet all other companies were embracing computers in the late 90s.

...Of course there was no mention that since there was no more crack out and re-slab game possible w/the computer grading system, profits had to have been falling off...

[Daniel]

Thank you all for your wise and eye opening advice. Reading it all I was thinking to myself this would be a much more fun hobby if some of the inconsistencies in grading were worked out better. ??

If you have not yet read the essay in my signature - it tells of how the companies spent big buck to develop their own legitimate grading system based on a verifiable standard in the 90s. Then all of a sudden the grading companies abandoned their, as they had advertised, more accurate system. They went back to what they had called, while touting the new computer system, the "less accurate" human grading system. The companies said they did this b/c people (in that time period) did not trust computers. Yet all other companies were embracing computers in the late 90s.

...Of course there was no mention that since there was no more crack out and re-slab game possible w/the computer grading system, profits had to have been falling off...

[CoinCraze]

what would someone do in a situation like this. ?? Not only the weight is off but also the Ratios are wrong. Would something like this be counted on as an "Error" or something else. Are these common ??

[Earle42]

If everything is as it seems here, then yes, it would be a type of error. Collectable and worth a premium? Likely not.

An improper alloy mix is generally not something people look for unless it is extreme. No real set rule for percentages, it depends on the buyer.

As an example, I have about 6-8 1972-D (*thinking* this is the right date/MM) half dollars I got roll hunting. They are lighter than they should be and have a different ring to them. Value? Fifty cents.

I have seen them talked about on forums, so others have found them also. But they are just not "interesting" enough to for the hobby to worry about.

[CoinCraze]

Thank you.