Thoughts on CAC?
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
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6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
Thoughts on CAC?
Hi, I'm familiar with PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. Recently, though, youtube started throwing recommended vids at me about coin dealers showing off coins they submitted to CAC.
I've never even heard of CAC. Granted I'm no expert in this field; my primary interest are coins that the grading companies won't even touch (asian cast coins). But I do have a few slabbed coins in my collection.
Listening to these various youtubers, I get a "slimy car salesman" feeling.. so I wonder, what do you think of CAC? I couldn't find any CoinHelpU videos with titles mentioning "CAC". I don't get that "slimy car salesman" feeling when watching Daniel's vids, so I am curious as to what Daniel or the other folks on this forum think about CAC.
Thoughts?
I've never even heard of CAC. Granted I'm no expert in this field; my primary interest are coins that the grading companies won't even touch (asian cast coins). But I do have a few slabbed coins in my collection.
Listening to these various youtubers, I get a "slimy car salesman" feeling.. so I wonder, what do you think of CAC? I couldn't find any CoinHelpU videos with titles mentioning "CAC". I don't get that "slimy car salesman" feeling when watching Daniel's vids, so I am curious as to what Daniel or the other folks on this forum think about CAC.
Thoughts?
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
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Re: Thoughts on CAC?
Welcome
I would recommend that your first action should be to stop
"Listening to these various youtubers"
I would recommend that your first action should be to stop
"Listening to these various youtubers"
- Earle42
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Re: Thoughts on CAC?
Most people using grading companies see the companies as having the absolute highest level of expertise in assigning a grade to a coin. Questioning the grade on a slab is akin to a felony for them. Yet they are the same people who nowadays will pay CAC to assess the grade on the slab!
So since grading companies are THE EXPERTS for coin grading, I guess CAC has THE MORE EXPERT EXPERTS?!
Believe it or not, a couple years ago a third party tried to get in on this farce (did I actually type that word?) party and started up MACAC. It was a service that would give you their own sticker if MACAC thought CAC's more expert experts had properly assessed the work of the unquestionable experts at the slabbing companies. I made this graphic back then: All of these companies simply take advantage of the human psychological "need" to have an "experts" opinion in something in order to validate the item. Their reputations are not what people assume them to be.
Read the essay in my signature and you will see the grading companies themselves can, and do, show less than rookie level expertise with some coins. It is not hard to find areas like this if you take the time.
Two more notes:
1. Back when the slabbers were first starting out, we joked about their arrogance of setting themselves up as THE hobby experts. We joked some day a company would take advantage of this and offer a service to rate how accurate the grade was on slabbed coins. We said we knew no one would ever be dumb enough (not a direct negative - this is actually what we said at the time) to be suckered into THAT kind of scheme.
2. Cracking out a coin and resubmitting to the same company never guarantees the same grade again. Yet people will accept a CAC as validating the grade on the slab. What's wrong with this picture?
So since grading companies are THE EXPERTS for coin grading, I guess CAC has THE MORE EXPERT EXPERTS?!
Believe it or not, a couple years ago a third party tried to get in on this farce (did I actually type that word?) party and started up MACAC. It was a service that would give you their own sticker if MACAC thought CAC's more expert experts had properly assessed the work of the unquestionable experts at the slabbing companies. I made this graphic back then: All of these companies simply take advantage of the human psychological "need" to have an "experts" opinion in something in order to validate the item. Their reputations are not what people assume them to be.
Read the essay in my signature and you will see the grading companies themselves can, and do, show less than rookie level expertise with some coins. It is not hard to find areas like this if you take the time.
Two more notes:
1. Back when the slabbers were first starting out, we joked about their arrogance of setting themselves up as THE hobby experts. We joked some day a company would take advantage of this and offer a service to rate how accurate the grade was on slabbed coins. We said we knew no one would ever be dumb enough (not a direct negative - this is actually what we said at the time) to be suckered into THAT kind of scheme.
2. Cracking out a coin and resubmitting to the same company never guarantees the same grade again. Yet people will accept a CAC as validating the grade on the slab. What's wrong with this picture?
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Daniel
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Re: Thoughts on CAC?
CAC is a sticker placed on coins so a seller can get more out of the coin, the sticker can be green but most covet the gold "beannie" sticker. We have two main grading companies and this is a way to "verify" the coin is solid for the grade and doesn't appear to be miss-graded, that is what it's supposed to be but that lead to greater sell prices for CAC coins.
- Daniel
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Re: Thoughts on CAC?
Nice, thank you for your insight. Geez, when I looked around yesterday and found that there were also "PQ" and "WINGS" stickers, I thought it was too much. But also "Eagle Eye" and a sticker by Tomaska? The situation is looking comical. The only thing that seems like an upside is the argument that a sticker could increase confidence in high dollar sight-unseen purchases. However, these days, such a thing seems to be a corner case. Nearly everyone would view pics before making a high dollar purchase.. only, I suppose, some dealers moving volume would not.
- Earle42
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Re: Thoughts on CAC?
Unfortunately this is not always the case.Nearly everyone would view pics before making a high dollar purchase.. only, I suppose, some dealers moving volume would not.
Read the essay in my signature to find where thousands have been spent for PCGS "No FG" labeled Kennedy halves which show an FG. There are way too many people who trust these companies explicitly enough ignore the wisdom of "buy the coin and not the slab." In my OPINION, buying the slab without checking the coin is driven by another slabbing company marketing idea: registry sets.
Please do not think I am being negative on registry sets. A hobby is about fun, and a lot of people have fun with these sets.
But I do see where registry sets have boosted the price of higher graded slabs, and, therefore b/c a lot of people just buy the slab, they get taken for an expensive ride by the grading companies.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Alan H
- Coin Wizz
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Re: Thoughts on CAC?
I’m also a “Buy the coin not the slab” kind of guy. I pay what I think a coin is worth. My collection will stay with me until I leave this world, so resale isn’t a big priority for me. My heirs can worry about it. I do have some slabs in my collection, they are handy if buying expensive pieces on line where you can’t have the coin in hand, and if I were a dealer who handled high value items I could see wanting to maximize my profits. A great deal depends on the coin’s worth to begin with. You need to do your homework on what it’s worth, what your potential gain would be as opposed to the cost of slabbing and sending off to CAC. You can tie up an awful lot of money for questionable gain. OTOH, if you’re on the buy and run across a coin that is slabbed, has the CAC sticker, and you can get it for the right price, I’d have no problem buying it. It’s a case by case thing.
- Earle42
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Re: Thoughts on CAC?
@Alan
Case by case = wisdom
Case by case = wisdom
Caution has to be taken there also though. Unfortunately the following examples are not uncommon. Thankfully they are not more common depending on the situation. Read the essay in my signature - a verifiable 30% failure level by PCGS on "No FG" Kennedy halves. It has cost collectors thousands for a face value coin....they are handy if buying expensive pieces on line where you can’t have the coin in hand...
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
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