Thoughts on CAC?

Post anything about coin grading holders, questions, images, facts announcements. If it's in, or about, or is a coin holders this is where to post it.

Moderator: Daniel

Forum rules
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.

1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.

2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.

3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.

4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.

5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.

6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.

7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
Post Reply
Message
Author
kotto7877
Coining Around
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:00 pm

Thoughts on CAC?

#1 Unread post by kotto7877 »

Hi, I'm familiar with PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. Recently, though, youtube started throwing recommended vids at me about coin dealers showing off coins they submitted to CAC.

I've never even heard of CAC. Granted I'm no expert in this field; my primary interest are coins that the grading companies won't even touch (asian cast coins). But I do have a few slabbed coins in my collection.

Listening to these various youtubers, I get a "slimy car salesman" feeling.. so I wonder, what do you think of CAC? I couldn't find any CoinHelpU videos with titles mentioning "CAC". I don't get that "slimy car salesman" feeling when watching Daniel's vids, so I am curious as to what Daniel or the other folks on this forum think about CAC.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18735
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 896 times
Been thanked: 3258 times

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#2 Unread post by Paul »

Welcome

I would recommend that your first action should be to stop
"Listening to these various youtubers"
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

User avatar
Earle42
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 15453
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
Location: OH
Has thanked: 1319 times
Been thanked: 4855 times

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#3 Unread post by Earle42 »

Most people using grading companies see the companies as having the absolute highest level of expertise in assigning a grade to a coin. Questioning the grade on a slab is akin to a felony for them. Yet they are the same people who nowadays will pay CAC to assess the grade on the slab!

So since grading companies are THE EXPERTS for coin grading, I guess CAC has THE MORE EXPERT EXPERTS?!

Believe it or not, a couple years ago a third party tried to get in on this farce (did I actually type that word?) party and started up MACAC. It was a service that would give you their own sticker if MACAC thought CAC's more expert experts had properly assessed the work of the unquestionable experts at the slabbing companies. I made this graphic back then:
Ike_Slab_Parody_1977-D$1.jpg
All of these companies simply take advantage of the human psychological "need" to have an "experts" opinion in something in order to validate the item. Their reputations are not what people assume them to be.

Read the essay in my signature and you will see the grading companies themselves can, and do, show less than rookie level expertise with some coins. It is not hard to find areas like this if you take the time.

Two more notes:
1. Back when the slabbers were first starting out, we joked about their arrogance of setting themselves up as THE hobby experts. We joked some day a company would take advantage of this and offer a service to rate how accurate the grade was on slabbed coins. We said we knew no one would ever be dumb enough (not a direct negative - this is actually what we said at the time) to be suckered into THAT kind of scheme.

2. Cracking out a coin and resubmitting to the same company never guarantees the same grade again. Yet people will accept a CAC as validating the grade on the slab. What's wrong with this picture?
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 26129
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 1121 times
Been thanked: 4074 times
Contact:

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#4 Unread post by Daniel »

CAC is a sticker placed on coins so a seller can get more out of the coin, the sticker can be green but most covet the gold "beannie" sticker. We have two main grading companies and this is a way to "verify" the coin is solid for the grade and doesn't appear to be miss-graded, that is what it's supposed to be but that lead to greater sell prices for CAC coins.

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 26129
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 1121 times
Been thanked: 4074 times
Contact:

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#5 Unread post by Daniel »

I did a video on CAC and some of these stickers so I have one now.


kotto7877
Coining Around
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:00 pm

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#6 Unread post by kotto7877 »

Nice, thank you for your insight. Geez, when I looked around yesterday and found that there were also "PQ" and "WINGS" stickers, I thought it was too much. But also "Eagle Eye" and a sticker by Tomaska? The situation is looking comical. The only thing that seems like an upside is the argument that a sticker could increase confidence in high dollar sight-unseen purchases. However, these days, such a thing seems to be a corner case. Nearly everyone would view pics before making a high dollar purchase.. only, I suppose, some dealers moving volume would not.

User avatar
Earle42
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 15453
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
Location: OH
Has thanked: 1319 times
Been thanked: 4855 times

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#7 Unread post by Earle42 »

Nearly everyone would view pics before making a high dollar purchase.. only, I suppose, some dealers moving volume would not.
Unfortunately this is not always the case.

Read the essay in my signature to find where thousands have been spent for PCGS "No FG" labeled Kennedy halves which show an FG. There are way too many people who trust these companies explicitly enough ignore the wisdom of "buy the coin and not the slab." In my OPINION, buying the slab without checking the coin is driven by another slabbing company marketing idea: registry sets.

Please do not think I am being negative on registry sets. A hobby is about fun, and a lot of people have fun with these sets.

But I do see where registry sets have boosted the price of higher graded slabs, and, therefore b/c a lot of people just buy the slab, they get taken for an expensive ride by the grading companies.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

User avatar
Alan H
Coin Wizz
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:52 am
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#8 Unread post by Alan H »

I’m also a “Buy the coin not the slab” kind of guy. I pay what I think a coin is worth. My collection will stay with me until I leave this world, so resale isn’t a big priority for me. My heirs can worry about it. I do have some slabs in my collection, they are handy if buying expensive pieces on line where you can’t have the coin in hand, and if I were a dealer who handled high value items I could see wanting to maximize my profits. A great deal depends on the coin’s worth to begin with. You need to do your homework on what it’s worth, what your potential gain would be as opposed to the cost of slabbing and sending off to CAC. You can tie up an awful lot of money for questionable gain. OTOH, if you’re on the buy and run across a coin that is slabbed, has the CAC sticker, and you can get it for the right price, I’d have no problem buying it. It’s a case by case thing.

User avatar
Earle42
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 15453
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
Location: OH
Has thanked: 1319 times
Been thanked: 4855 times

Re: Thoughts on CAC?

#9 Unread post by Earle42 »

@Alan

Case by case = wisdom :thumbsup:
...they are handy if buying expensive pieces on line where you can’t have the coin in hand...
Caution has to be taken there also though. Unfortunately the following examples are not uncommon. Thankfully they are not more common depending on the situation. Read the essay in my signature - a verifiable 30% failure level by PCGS on "No FG" Kennedy halves. It has cost collectors thousands for a face value coin.
20190131_PCGS_Slab_Grade_Opt288.jpg
20190502_Slabbed_1925_5¢_Canada_Opt240.jpg
20180524_Kennedy_No_FG_but_FG_Slabopt-ccfopt.jpg
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post