Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

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Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#1 Unread post by ChanceDuncan »

Im not saying I agree or disagree with NGC's grading of this 1878 7TF REV if 78 Morgan but I just want to get the communities opinion on the grade of this coin.... after a week or so Ill post its NGC's grade.....And let me caveat I am not posting this because of my opinion of the grade given by NGC, either for or against, but multi-varied analysis of how the community would grade it....
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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#2 Unread post by Earle42 »

ChanceDuncan wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:10 pm Im not saying I agree or disagree with NGC's grading of this 1878 7TF REV if 78 Morgan but I just want to get the communities opinion on the grade of this coin.... after a week or so Ill post its NGC's grade.....And let me caveat I am not posting this because of my opinion of the grade given by NGC, either for or against, but multi-varied analysis of how the community would grade it....
It sounds like you have a great deal of faith in these companies. This is fine, but the following information is something I think will benefit you greatly (and save you a lot of money) concerning questioning a grading company slab grade.

Here is a reality check about grading companies vs. what people coming into the hobby just assume about them b/c of seeing so many slabbed coins being sold. Reading this will help you make better educated decisions concerning these companies and your hard earned cash.😊:

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Here is some beginners fishing tackle. Its worth your time to read.


Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.


Popular mistaken mindset:
1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.

Professional predicting not possible:
2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets slabbed coins back from the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays:

a. Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where allegedly three, but in reality its normally two, graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed and paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.

b. If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (extreme and a bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (extreme and a great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. This subjectivity makes for greater company profits since people resubmit the same coin trying to get a higher (better price when selling) grade. In the 90s the companies, at great expense, created better (their own words) scientific methods not relying upon human opinion. No doubt the large profit from the re-slabbing game fell. The companies abandoned the science and went back to their less accurate systems.

But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders

Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies

Error on errors:
3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find and ID an error for you. You must FIRST ID the error yourself, CHECK to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors incorrectly.

Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature as an eye opening example. Sadly, the verifiable data presented from the PCGS website shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.

Cost concerns:
4. B/c people do not understand the businesses, so very many people end up with spending far more money to slab a coin than the coin is worth. The companies profit greatly with membership fees, submission fees, insurance fees, shipping fees and extra (chosen) fees. ANACs does not have all these fees though.


You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.


And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!" 😊
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#3 Unread post by Musicbox man63 »

F 15?
- musicbox man63

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#4 Unread post by Musicbox man63 »

maybe vf20 but would have to see it in hand.
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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#5 Unread post by Paul »

Welcome
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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#6 Unread post by SensibleSal66 »

Hello and Welcome!
Member of CONECA
" All replies are my opinion based on experience"
Casual Collector 40+ years , 10 years Error coins ( still learning).

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#7 Unread post by Redline68 »

Guessing F15

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#8 Unread post by Daniel »

VF30

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#9 Unread post by ChanceDuncan »

Earle42 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:09 am
ChanceDuncan wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:10 pm Im not saying I agree or disagree with NGC's grading of this 1878 7TF REV if 78 Morgan but I just want to get the communities opinion on the grade of this coin.... after a week or so Ill post its NGC's grade.....And let me caveat I am not posting this because of my opinion of the grade given by NGC, either for or against, but multi-varied analysis of how the community would grade it....
It sounds like you have a great deal of faith in these companies. This is fine, but the following information is something I think will benefit you greatly (and save you a lot of money) concerning questioning a grading company slab grade.

Here is a reality check about grading companies vs. what people coming into the hobby just assume about them b/c of seeing so many slabbed coins being sold. Reading this will help you make better educated decisions concerning these companies and your hard earned cash.😊:

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Here is some beginners fishing tackle. Its worth your time to read.


Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.


Popular mistaken mindset:
1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.

Professional predicting not possible:
2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets slabbed coins back from the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays:

a. Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where allegedly three, but in reality its normally two, graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed and paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.

b. If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (extreme and a bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (extreme and a great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. This subjectivity makes for greater company profits since people resubmit the same coin trying to get a higher (better price when selling) grade. In the 90s the companies, at great expense, created better (their own words) scientific methods not relying upon human opinion. No doubt the large profit from the re-slabbing game fell. The companies abandoned the science and went back to their less accurate systems.

But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders

Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies

Error on errors:
3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find and ID an error for you. You must FIRST ID the error yourself, CHECK to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors incorrectly.

Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature as an eye opening example. Sadly, the verifiable data presented from the PCGS website shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.

Cost concerns:
4. B/c people do not understand the businesses, so very many people end up with spending far more money to slab a coin than the coin is worth. The companies profit greatly with membership fees, submission fees, insurance fees, shipping fees and extra (chosen) fees. ANACs does not have all these fees though.


You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.


And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!" 😊
I am far beyond having faith in anything involving humans for 2 reasons.
1. I am one and know the depths of the greatness and wickedness that is in every human. The only thing that can justify our ability to do great evil is our ability to do be very kind now that being
said I am nether pessimist or optimist I think life is far to intricate and nuanced to not encompass the totality of a person life and more when viewing said life but I digress...
2. 6 years in the Army and being a combat vet has taking away the romance that is the human condition but I will say I am still surprised from time to time it just seems to be getting fewer and
farther between these moments of child like wonder.
I will say that I am a collector and having only really started about a year ago I am a novice but I have an obsessive like need to know as much as possible and I think all information is valuable even if said info is less likely to be true or out right false. I appreciate you response for the information you supplied and even more so the cogent and articulate way in which you so verbosely expressed it....

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#10 Unread post by ChanceDuncan »

ChanceDuncan wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:10 pm Im not saying I agree or disagree with NGC's grading of this 1878 7TF REV if 78 Morgan but I just want to get the communities opinion on the grade of this coin.... after a week or so Ill post its NGC's grade.....And let me caveat I am not posting this because of my opinion of the grade given by NGC, either for or against, but multi-varied analysis of how the community would grade it....
I will be posting the answer on Monday so stay tuned and keep guessing... (in game show voice)

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#11 Unread post by MLC »

I would say VF25
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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#12 Unread post by ChanceDuncan »

Congrats to...... Musicbox man63 ( although you did change your answer later on lol) and Redline68 cuz you two were correct.... I was off on my prediction I guessed a VF 20 when I submitted it. I submitted this and a bunch of other, what I assumed would be, lower graded coins so I could have some examples of some lower graded coins.... Im about to send off some more and Ill post some of the ones Im sending off as well as some of the ones I just got back...
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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#13 Unread post by Daniel »

The coin is under-graded. PCGS photo grade proves that. I know we're looking at images but still.

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde/#/Morgan/Grades

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#14 Unread post by Earle42 »

BTW... I want to say a heartfelt thank you for your service. I always try to let our vets know I sincerely appreciate them and look to shake their hands when out and about.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#15 Unread post by RevElvisLee »

ChanceDuncan wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:10 pm Im not saying I agree or disagree with NGC's grading of this 1878 7TF REV if 78 Morgan but I just want to get the communities opinion on the grade of this coin.... after a week or so Ill post its NGC's grade.....And let me caveat I am not posting this because of my opinion of the grade given by NGC, either for or against, but multi-varied analysis of how the community would grade it....
I'm gonna take my guess without reading what the bona fide experts have to say first. Full disclosure: I'm terrible at this, which is what I came to the site to post about today in the first place....

The color throws me off a bit, but judging from the rim, this appears to have been a belt buckle at some point. I'm gonna guess "XF Details - Damaged." Did I win? :ugeek:
Just my two cents...
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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#16 Unread post by MikeB »

VF25

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Re: Guess NGC's grade on this Morgan....

#17 Unread post by Jasonkflo »

wow was going to say VF-30

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