"Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
- Paul
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"Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
"Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
by CONECA Variety Attributer,
James Wiles
Originally attributed as doubled dies by John Wexler and published by Ken Potter in Numismatic News, "hot lips" dimes were subsequently cataloged as doubled dies by CONECA as well. I had questions initially but was willing to agree with other attributers and list them as DDOs, until more information surfaced. It wasn't long until several additional specimens from varying dates and die states were reported. It was discovered that all had die clash marks and when overlays were made, the reverse design matched the doubled areas. I have now seen enough examples for me to conclude that the doubling is most likely the result of die clashing/abrasion and not from a doubled die. Other attributers are re-evaluating their positions. I remain open, but until I see an example without die clashing, I am no longer listing them in the CONECA Die Variety files. In fact, those that had been listed, have now been removed. See my study notes, overlays, and photos in the Roosevelt Dime E-Book.
by CONECA Variety Attributer,
James Wiles
Originally attributed as doubled dies by John Wexler and published by Ken Potter in Numismatic News, "hot lips" dimes were subsequently cataloged as doubled dies by CONECA as well. I had questions initially but was willing to agree with other attributers and list them as DDOs, until more information surfaced. It wasn't long until several additional specimens from varying dates and die states were reported. It was discovered that all had die clash marks and when overlays were made, the reverse design matched the doubled areas. I have now seen enough examples for me to conclude that the doubling is most likely the result of die clashing/abrasion and not from a doubled die. Other attributers are re-evaluating their positions. I remain open, but until I see an example without die clashing, I am no longer listing them in the CONECA Die Variety files. In fact, those that had been listed, have now been removed. See my study notes, overlays, and photos in the Roosevelt Dime E-Book.
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- HOT LIPS DIME EXAMPLE.jpg (30.31 KiB) Viewed 1637 times
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Out of curiosity, what happens to any coins that may have graded as a doubled die? No I don't have one but am just curious.
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USN Retired Jun1977-Jun 1997/100% disabled VET. (Not a wounded warrior)
Member CONACA
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2000-P .05C Strong Clashed Die O/R PCGS # 14129072 photo at maddieclashes
1983-P DDR FS-01-1983-501
5 2000 WAM FS- 901
Member CONACA
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Finds to date
2000-P .05C Strong Clashed Die O/R PCGS # 14129072 photo at maddieclashes
1983-P DDR FS-01-1983-501
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
That's a very good question......
I will have to ask someone higher up
I will have to ask someone higher up
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Paul, could you please put a link to he E-book you mention?
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Paul
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
An already slabbed coin is just that, it will remain in the slab unlabeled but once word is out no one will buy it as a hot lips, this isn't the first time for this to happen.
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Paul:
This is what I was asking the link for:
This is what I was asking the link for:
See my study notes, overlays, and photos in the Roosevelt Dime E-Book.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
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- Location: Wisconsin
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
I'm going to have to search this one out.......
Here's an image of the overlay I made...... I don't see it, but what do I know
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
What overlays was he looking at, could the reverse clash have been slight rotated/
- Paul
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Very possible Daniel
I'm going to have to dig into his e-book when I have time…
I'm going to have to dig into his e-book when I have time…
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Thanks Paul
Before I had asked you for the link, I took every link and sub link at that location and found no overlay. Thanks for your overlay.
Rotated:
Looks like it. Otherwise it doesn't line up with the former "hot lips" designation picture.
Before I had asked you for the link, I took every link and sub link at that location and found no overlay. Thanks for your overlay.
Rotated:
Looks like it. Otherwise it doesn't line up with the former "hot lips" designation picture.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19069
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3319 times
Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Okay, instead of doing what I was supposed to be doing for the last few hours, I searched all over myself........ NOTHING!
I use the photo editing software called "Gimp", it's a little more complicated but, once you learn it you love it.
I spun that reverse overlay 360°, I still don't see anything matching anywhere.
Conclusion: ??
I was just posting what I read on the site....................
I use the photo editing software called "Gimp", it's a little more complicated but, once you learn it you love it.
I spun that reverse overlay 360°, I still don't see anything matching anywhere.
Conclusion: ??
I was just posting what I read on the site....................
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
This is only been found on the 1964 Denver mint issues?
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Paul, I don't see it either. I spent a good 1 1/2 looking at your overlay and I just can't see it. The only thing I can think of which might fit, is if some how the clash was off center a little to K9. Other than that I'm going crazy trying to match it up.
USN Retired Jun1977-Jun 1997/100% disabled VET. (Not a wounded warrior)
Member CONACA
ANA
PCGS
NGC
Finds to date
2000-P .05C Strong Clashed Die O/R PCGS # 14129072 photo at maddieclashes
1983-P DDR FS-01-1983-501
5 2000 WAM FS- 901
Member CONACA
ANA
PCGS
NGC
Finds to date
2000-P .05C Strong Clashed Die O/R PCGS # 14129072 photo at maddieclashes
1983-P DDR FS-01-1983-501
5 2000 WAM FS- 901
- Earle42
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
I also spent time on your overlay Paul, and I decided the best way to try to figure it out was to make an overlay myself. I also added a colored pic of the hotlips. I made the REV overlay colored to make a better contrast and cannot make the design match.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19069
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3319 times
- Earle42
- Administrator
- Posts: 15967
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
- Location: OH
- Has thanked: 1378 times
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Re: "Hot Lips" Dimes Now Considered Die Clashes
Good read - thanks for this.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
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