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1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#11 Unread post by Earle42 »

Remember since none of us have this in hand, the pictures are the best we can do. This exercise is one of trying to use clues to figure out and explain what we believe we see. Daniel stopped in so I will wait until after he adds his bit.

@Paul want to join in? We are looking for opinions and reasons that help people understand errors and I am sure you could supply some valuable input.

I am guessing maybe tonight I will give my OPINIONS and why. I also will post the opinion of someone I was pleased to find mine agreed with on the other forum. I have been e-associated with this person for a number of years, reading their input, and been amazed at the level of knowledge they have concerning coin production and errors. IMO this person is a peer to the hobby's noted error specialist, Mike Diamond.
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Fact checking grading company shortcomings on NO FG halves:
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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#12 Unread post by Daniel »

This is a delamination but not struck through, a strike through would have impeded the strike more and you would not be able to see the E or the L this well or at all, and it would be much smoother inside the area in question. I also believe this happened to the planchet before it was struck and why it doesn't have the appearance of a typical delamination.

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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#13 Unread post by SensibleSal66 »

Thanks Lee / Daniel for the education of this coin. I had it as a strike through even though the lettering is evident . I think this will help us all .
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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#14 Unread post by Funky Strike »

I have never seen a delamination error in real life - and I have found that seeing something for real does help in understanding - I'll have to go "hunting" for one!

These are good exercises! Thank You Earle!

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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#15 Unread post by Paul »

Since you asked...... I will make a comment here.
Proper imagery is the key to diagnostics. With all my years of photographing coins, I can pretty much make any coin look anyway I want.
Of course, the images that you have posted here, take a more in depth knowledge of the differentiation needed to ascertain the "Error" that is depicted in that image. "Lighting" is the biggest issue pertaining to diagnostics. Learning to "Read" images is also a learning curve situation.

Becoming exceptionally proficient at this, only comes with having looked at thousands of images, under all different conditions....& having been active at this for so long, I understand why individuals using high magnification devices, make mistakes they do.
Even with the ultra confusing close-up image that you had posted here, there were several telltale indicators as to the nature of this anomaly.
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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#16 Unread post by Earle42 »

OK... Sit back, grab a Pepsi, put your feet up by the air condtioner and...

Thanks all for the input. And I think we all can agree with Paul's wisdom concerning pictures in that hands on can show what photos do not. So the best we can do on forums is give a guess of what the pics show us.

As a former teacher, I enjoy teaching/sharing and this post was an exercise in seeing how I attempt to have a coin tell me what it has been through. They can talk, just not in English. And I don't always hear them correctly either.

When I finally get the point in life that I know my opinions are RIGHT, I am at the point I know nothing.

My thoughts are this is a strike through.

Why not a delamination?

My for-a-second thought after seeing the initial picture was delamination b/c of how the surface looks with a “ghosted image” in the area.

That thought lasted a second or so noticing the very uniform edges of the anomaly. As per error-ref.com (http://www.error-ref.com/?s=delamination):
Definition: Lamination errors are planchet errors in which the surface of a coin cracks and flakes. It is generally believed that lamination errors are caused by contaminants in the alloy that cause the metal to separate along the horizontal plane. Lamination errors can develop before or after the strike.
[emphasis added]
BTW - error-ref.com DOES make the following point:
While “delamination error” would be the proper term, we’re stuck with the terminology we’ve inherited from previous researchers.
Lamination is putting layers together while delamination is taking them apart (there is that teacher coming out again!😜)

Although a struck though coin can have its damaged area look like anything you can imagine that might get between the die and the planchet, typically delaminations do not have 4 almost straight sides.

Why is so much of the L showing but the building looks to be massively messed up? My OPINION is that we are looking at a 2D picture trying to sleuth a 3D object.

I may be wrong, but I think the void is pretty uniform in depth. Following is an annotated picture showing how I think the lighting (as Paul mentioned) shows different than what we think we see. Note the orange arrows point to the shadow being approximately the same size and, if anything, the step area in question is slightly higher (less affected/flattened than appears) since the shadow below the affected step area is just slightly bigger at its bottom.

There does not appear to much difference in the depth when considering the shadows and looking carefully once more at the picture.

So what is the blob and dark area not in the void?

THEORY: It could if this is a strike through that the object was stuck to the coin (it happens). A proper hit gouged the metal below the L (now void area) and the impact popped the thin object out of where it had been pressed into the planchet with 20 tons of pressure.
1940_StrikeThrough_Debate.jpg
This is my guess.

I would appreciate if someone could show me where I may have made mistakes in my thinking.

When I value ‘being right’ over what is right, I am then right...a fool.
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Fact checking grading company shortcomings on NO FG halves:
https://tinyurl.com/yalrstjz or higher resolution version: https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#17 Unread post by SensibleSal66 »

Lee, what did they say over at the other Forum ? Here we seem to be divided . Has or is coin going to be attributed ? I would be interested to see how this turns out .
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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#18 Unread post by Paul »

This is an example of the imagery that I use for surface variations......
Notice how the "Lighting" is used to show you exactly what's going on:
Attachments
47-2794.jpg
47-27938.jpg
47-27939.jpg
47-27940.jpg
47-27942.jpg
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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#19 Unread post by Iceresistance »

Paul wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:41 am This is an example of the imagery that I use for surface variations......
Notice how the "Lighting" is used to show you exactly what's going on:
What year is that Delaminated Wheat Penny?
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2019 finds: 1926 Wheat Penny

2020 finds: 1966 90% Silver Canadian Quarter, 1983-S Proof Kennedy Half Dollar. 2000-S Clad Proof Roosevelt Dime, 5 wheat pennies in a single coin roll, & a 1910 Wheat Penny for Christmas!

2021 Finds: 1949-S Jefferson Nickel

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Re: 1940-S 5¢: "Delam" or "Struck Through"

#20 Unread post by Paul »

1944
Attachments
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47-279_3 - Copy.jpg
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