1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

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RevElvisLee
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1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#1 Unread post by RevElvisLee »

I bought a PCGS graded/slabbed 1956 proof set for a REALLY good price on eBay, and they arrived today. The pictures clearly showed the PR67 grade, and I thought at the time of bidding that they ALL looked like CAM. Now that I have them in my hands, the Franklin ESPECIALLY looks as though it should have been graded as CAM. I just recently joined PCGS, and I bought the membership that comes with 6 free coin grading vouchers. I am seriously considering cracking it out and resubmitting it, but I'm hesitant. My dad always said "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". On the other hand, it's the guy who is willing to dive into the bush that ends up with all the birds! So naturally, I'm coming to you guys for advice once again. If you had a free PCGS submission to burn, would you go for the CAM on this, or leave well enough alone? Thanks in advance for your help!
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#2 Unread post by SensibleSal66 »

Hello . You present what many would call a personal choice . In my own opinion, I would leave it but you have it in your own hands and going based on Photo's it's very hard to tell.
Awaiting more recommendations .
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#3 Unread post by Paul »

Full slab images?
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#4 Unread post by RevElvisLee »

Paul wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:53 am Full slab images?
On a side note, I just realized the reverse appears not to be a full 180 degrees from the obverse. Seems a little sloppy for a proof - am I imagining things?
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#5 Unread post by RevElvisLee »

SensibleSal66 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:59 am Hello . You present what many would call a personal choice . In my own opinion, I would leave it but you have it in your own hands and going based on Photo's it's very hard to tell.
Awaiting more recommendations .
Sarcasm noted and appreciated. 👍
I know enough to know that I don't know much when it comes to coin grading. The six I end up submitting this week will be the first submissions I've ever done. The seller wasn't any help when I asked him the question. He seemed to just have a bunch of stuff for sale that he wasn't particularly attached to. I was the lone bidder on this set, and his starting price was pretty darned low. I doubt he was the one who had them graded. The reverse isn't quite as cameoed as the obverse, but it seems like I've seen MUCH bigger discrepancies on coins from the 50s that have made the grade. Could it be that PR67 was just the grade that was asked for and received? Do you have to ASK for the CAM designation?

Thanks for your help!
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#6 Unread post by SensibleSal66 »

My intentions were not to be taken as sarcasm but my true opinion . That's what you asked for and that's what you got .
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#7 Unread post by RevElvisLee »

SensibleSal66 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:20 pm My intentions were not to be taken as sarcasm but my true opinion . That's what you asked for and that's what you got .
And I sincerely thank you for it. With your help, and the help of other knowledgeable users in this forum, I hope to make what many would call "an informed choice."
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#8 Unread post by Paul »

What you have is a "Proof" coin…
It may look like a "Cameo",.... because of the way it was imaged.
If you look at the label, it does not have a designation of 'Cameo' or 'Ultra Cameo'

Of course I would need to see it in hand
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#9 Unread post by RevElvisLee »

Paul wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:54 pm What you have is a "Proof" coin…
It may look like a "Cameo",.... because of the way it was imaged.
If you look at the label, it does not have a designation of 'Cameo' or 'Ultra Cameo'

Of course I would need to see it in hand
Thanks for your reply. I imaged it myself and it's an accurate representation of what the coin looks like in-hand. That being said, it seems the best thing to do would be to take it to a local coin shop and ask them. I asked the community because there are so many bonafide experts here, and me being a novice (at best!), I am unsure of myself. What I haven't heard is "Man, you're crazy - that's no cameo" or "Yeah, PCGS screwed up - I'd send that in for another look!" That's a good sign, because it tells me I'm not just being silly in entertaining the idea of resubmitting it. All of this helps me to build a foundational knowledge for the future. I want to be able to make an educated assessment (or guess) on my own so I'll know which of my ungraded proofs to submit, for example. As in what are the bare minimum attributes that constitute a CAM or DCAM designation, and how different are the standards for a 1952 Franklin and, say, a 1992 Kennedy?

As a purely hypothetical, taking the photos at face value (no pun), if you were holding that raw coin in your hand, seeing it for the first time and that's exactly what it looked like to your own eyes, would you believe it had a good chance of receiving a CAM designation if you were sending it off to be graded, or does it appear below that standard to you? I promise I won't hold you to it.

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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#10 Unread post by Earle42 »

Be aware that this great looking Franklin is never guaranteed an MS67 again if you send it in for regrading. In the real world, the slab/label is what is MS67, not your coin.

You simply have learned what many people do in the same way.

These companies are not using any verifiable standards. They are not up to the standards people (want badly to and) think they are. The companies use no verifiable science/data for their product. They are not accountable. And, like is typical nowadays, their "guarantee" is also full of misleading wording. Study it.

The two graders* who see each coin sit there 8 hours a day staring at coins. They are subject to regular human fatigue etc. I think it unreasonable to believe the graders can possibly be consistent throughout the day since its all opinion anyway. Their slabs and grades on labels bear witness to this easily:
Slabbing pics

All the companies abandoned their (own admittedly more precise) scientific methods of grading in the 90s that would have eliminated things like missing a cameo.

Abandoning the science means they now have the "crack out and re-slab (for a fee of course) game" people pay them to play. The companies more accurate system based upon verifiable data would have eliminated this huge area of profits for the companies.


*The "three - four graders per coin" idea is something that comes from a misleading wording in the guarantee. Yes, "a minimum three to four graders are assigned" to each coin like the guarantee says at the start. Then further down beyond where people have likely lost interest in the reading, it is clarified that "assigned" does not mean "grade" the coin. Only two handle and grade the coin. Then if there is a discrepancy between the two, only then will the "assigned" third and fourth grade the coin.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#11 Unread post by Paul »

I would recommend that you STOP reading slab labels, and start looking specifically at the coins themselves
After all it's just a plastic container with a slip of paper inside
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#12 Unread post by Daniel »

Honestly, this forum is for helping people answer questions about their coins, ID errors and varieties, sharing and talking numismatics, but it's just not a short cut to learn if a coin you have should be sent off for grading. We can't do that in images and it takes years to learn those skills. I am one of the more skilled at sending coins for grading with about 20 years under my belt, but they don't always agree with me.

There's just no short cut to this and I recommend you start sending so you can learn by example. Buy and cherry pick you some coins, used graded coins as examples, and start submitting. Share your results with us, but we can't help you decide on if your coin should be submitted or resubmitted or not.

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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#13 Unread post by finalfantasy »

Well speaking of holders and grades if you found this in Type 1 and it was in star Cameo for this year I would buy it off you for real. I have an almost complete technical set of these.

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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#14 Unread post by Earle42 »

finalfantasy wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:41 pm ... I have an almost complete technical set of these.
Very Nice. I do not have the major varieties or most proofs. I have a couple minor DDOs, a 54 and a 55-P Bugs though.

One of these days....maybe!

I have other targets in view for now.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#15 Unread post by finalfantasy »

Earle42 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:50 pm
Very Nice. I do not have the major varieties or most proofs. I have a couple minor DDOs, a 54 and a 55-P Bugs though.

One of these days....maybe!

I have other targets in view for now.
I still only need the Nickel and I'd have complete set with the Type 2 Franklin but to find that Type 1 in PR67 Star Cameo would be a shoot for the stars as I have yet to see one. I missed out on the nickel once. So I know it is out there.

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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#16 Unread post by RevElvisLee »

Daniel wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:38 pm Honestly, this forum is for helping people answer questions about their coins, ID errors and varieties, sharing and talking numismatics, but it's just not a short cut to learn if a coin you have should be sent off for grading. We can't do that in images and it takes years to learn those skills. I am one of the more skilled at sending coins for grading with about 20 years under my belt, but they don't always agree with me.

There's just no short cut to this and I recommend you start sending so you can learn by example. Buy and cherry pick you some coins, used graded coins as examples, and start submitting. Share your results with us, but we can't help you decide on if your coin should be submitted or resubmitted or not.
Actually, I've received a great deal of helpful feedback today that will inform my decision, and I do appreciate it. I'll let you guys know what happens if you're interested.
Just my two cents...
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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#17 Unread post by telfeyan »

I have all the proof sets from 1956 through 1964. Maybe my luck was just bad back in those years, but none of them have a cameo proof. When proof sets resumed in 1968, I did begin to see some cameo coins, especially Kennedy half dollars, but never from when they were produced in Philadelphia from 1964 and earlier.

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Re: 1956 Franklin PR67 - Where's My Cameo?

#18 Unread post by josephcolorado »

In all seriousness, if you have the dough to blow, just because you are curious, you could do that. It's your coin. There are more things to coin collecting than just making a profit from it. That's how I think about it. Best of luck.
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