So I sent in a coin to a grading company... not going to say which one...and I submitted a coin for a strike through error. The coin "had" a small metal piece that looked like it was still attached (in it's mint shaped holder - I never opened or removed the coin from it's holder) and it appears as though that metal shaving had been struck through to the reverse of the coin. To my surprise the coin came back as an RP70 - no mint error. When I submitted the coin, I noted the location of the strike through and felt that it was adequate. No, I did not take a photo of the coin in it's case prior to sending in, I will never forget to do that in the future. But here is a partial image of the coin and it's error... I can only assume the error was too small to be considered a mint error BUT, it should never have been graded an RP70. I told one of the rep's about this and he suggested I send the coin back for a regrade... my answer to him was that the coin was worth more as an RP70 than an RP69 without an error rating.
Should this have been an error?
The strike through is circled and is a small sideways "y" looking imprint...
Poorly graded "error" - coin comes back RP70
Moderator: Daniel
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Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
- Earle42
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Re: Poorly graded "error" - coin comes back RP70
IMO - nowadays a scam is only a scam if you do not have a large enough market base supporting you!.
I have done a LOT of research into these companies and the more I find, the more I am disgusted with them.
I have been thanked many times for the insights provided below.
Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.
1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.
2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets pieces back form the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays.
Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where (allegedly, but in reality its normally two) three graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.
If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. Personally having talked with former graders (granted - its been awhile), the process is very rushed since they told me graders are paid by how many coins they can get through in a day.
But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders
Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies
3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they only ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find ID an error for you. You must first ID the error yourself, check to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors correctly.
Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature. You will find it a very eye opening example composed of PCGS data from their own site.
The verifiable data presented shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.
You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.
And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!"
I have done a LOT of research into these companies and the more I find, the more I am disgusted with them.
I have been thanked many times for the insights provided below.
Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.
1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.
2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets pieces back form the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays.
Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where (allegedly, but in reality its normally two) three graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.
If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. Personally having talked with former graders (granted - its been awhile), the process is very rushed since they told me graders are paid by how many coins they can get through in a day.
But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders
Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies
3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they only ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find ID an error for you. You must first ID the error yourself, check to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors correctly.
Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature. You will find it a very eye opening example composed of PCGS data from their own site.
The verifiable data presented shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.
You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.
And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!"
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Daniel
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- Location: Ohio
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- Contact:
Re: Poorly graded "error" - coin comes back RP70
Way too minor to be noteworthy and would not be worth more, also 70 always for a slight mint imperfection. 70 does not mean a coin is perfect.
- Earle42
- Administrator
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- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
- Location: OH
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Re: Poorly graded "error" - coin comes back RP70
PCGS grading standards:
https://www.pcgs.com/grades/
https://www.pcgs.com/grades/
Daniel, how does this fit with what you are saying about 70 not meaning perfect?Mint State (MS)
The numerical grades MS-60 through MS-70, used to denote a business strike coin that never has been in circulation. A Mint State coin can range from one that is covered with marks (MS-60) to a flawless example (MS-70).
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Daniel
- Administrator
- Posts: 26481
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Has thanked: 1146 times
- Been thanked: 4157 times
- Contact:
Re: Poorly graded "error" - coin comes back RP70
Earle, scroll down to the ms/pr 70 and click on the coin under that.
- Daniel
- Administrator
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- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Has thanked: 1146 times
- Been thanked: 4157 times
- Contact:
Re: Poorly graded "error" - coin comes back RP70
The problem most people have here is a MS/PR 70 can have a flaw or defect as from the mint, but not post mint. The coin in question here is a mint defect so the coin is PR70.
- Earle42
- Administrator
- Posts: 15967
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
- Location: OH
- Has thanked: 1378 times
- Been thanked: 4983 times
Re: Poorly graded "error" - coin comes back RP70
I appreciate the education
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
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