So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

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So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#1 Unread post by DSCoins »

For those of you who insist on using a USB Microscope to search coins (you should stay away from USB Microscopes while searching) and here's why. There is a very simple test you can perform before you post it on the forum to have someone tell you it's just machine doubling. The first two photos show what someone may think is a doubled die under a Microscope.


youthink1.jpg

youthink4.jpg

Now that you see this, lets start doing our little test. It's simple and will take less than a minute. Now you will just start turning your coin around either CW or CCW.


youthink2.jpg

youthink3.jpg

youthink5.jpg


As you can plainly see, what you thought was a Doubled Die is not. When you turn the coin and the Doubling still show all the around the clock then it is a Doubled Die but as you can see the alleged doubling disappeared. Simple easy test. So before you post asking if this is a Doubled Die don't forget to double check first.


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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#2 Unread post by minddyy »

thank you very helpful info. it is very frustrating as a newbie CC because everything looks like a double die.

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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#3 Unread post by Earle42 »

Nice post - I hope many newbies see this 👍🏻
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#4 Unread post by Paul »

Proper Magnification for Die Varieties

The standards we use in variety collecting and attribution have been in place for over three decades and thus are well established. Cherrypickers prefer a 10x loupe, usually of the Hastings triplet type, such as the one manufactured by Bausch & Lomb. The Hastings triplet is composed of three layers of optical glass. So it offers high magnification with no distortion around the edges. There are several reasons why this standard was established. It is affordable (still around $40.00). It is portable (easy to carry at coin shows). It allows you to see almost the entire side of a Lincoln cent with one glance. Furthermore, 10x is the standard for listability. If it requires more than 10x to easily see the variety, it is not listable in the CONECA files and thus probably not worth your time and money to collect. Once in the study, a 20x-30x microscope is used to identify the die diagnostics and confirm an attribution of the variety.

Every attribution service has a standard for listability. Some are well published, others not so. Cherrypickers' Guide uses 7x. CONECA uses 10x. In order to be listable in the CONECA files a die variety must be easily seen with a 10x loupe. These standards were set in the 80s and early 90s. The CONECA standard has been published in multiple places over several decades. I am always reminding people of the standard. There were several reasons why the standard was set at 10x. In the 1980's a 10x Hastings triplet loupe was expensive, but not prohibitive for the average variety collector. Only die-hard researchers bought microscopes which at the time were $1000 and only ranged from 10x-60x. We used the microscopes to verify attributions and take photos. Everyone cherrypicked with a 10x loupe. We fully realized that with more magnification, more varieties would be found, but we also realized that the average collector did not "care." There was no interest in collecting varieties that could not easily be seen. In fact, there still isn't (now 40 years later, just check the archives of the PCGS message board). As the files began to be developed, we realized that there were more varieties to be found even at 10x than we thought. The files began to mushroom in size (now at close to 10,000 entries) and the standard helped us keep the files manageable for a volunteer position. I have put thousands upon thousands of volunteer hours into developing these files. Another reason the standard remains at 10x is because one of the goals of the files is for every collector to be able to attribute their own variety coins. The files of some other attributers contain 100+ entries for each date/mint. Trying to work through that many listings to attribute a coin that might have a premium value of $10.00 is insane. It takes more time than the variety is worth. By holding the standard at 10x, the files are much more manageable for everyone, attributer and collector alike.

This article taken from the Variety Vista website / by James Wiles, Ph.D.
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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#5 Unread post by minddyy »

Since you mentioned it, I would like to know about grading with PCGS. What kind of magnification do they use to grade? do the go as much as 30X to check for scratches? I have read they use a lot more magnification to find imperfections.

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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#6 Unread post by minddyy »

Since you mentioned it, I would like to know about grading with PCGS. What kind of magnification do they use to grade? do the go as much as 30X to check for scratches? I have read they use a lot more magnification to find imperfections.

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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#7 Unread post by DSCoins »

minddyy wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:08 am Since you mentioned it, I would like to know about grading with PCGS. What kind of magnification do they use to grade? do the go as much as 30X to check for scratches? I have read they use a lot more magnification to find imperfections.
If you had actually read the entire post by Paul (the one above your post). You would know the answer to the you question. 10X
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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#8 Unread post by minddyy »

I saw that but, i have read that PCGS uses extra magnification for grading the quality of the specimen

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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#9 Unread post by Daniel »

minddyy wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 1:35 am I saw that but, i have read that PCGS uses extra magnification for grading the quality of the specimen
I would like to know where you "heard" that because it's not factual.

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Re: So You Think You Found A Doubled Die

#10 Unread post by RevlisAg »

When in Rome, do what the Romans do 10x. When I first got my microscope I had the same experience. The lighting has a lot to do with it. All the quarters out of the roll seemed to have double chins and noses, not to mention foreheads. After rotating them, none had it. It's much easier to plop that coin down and roll it around than putting it up to your bifocal reading glasses and start squinting. But you get a rush when you think you got something. Only to find, after further investigation, it's just the same as the other 100,000's of coins like it. Peace.

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