Civil War Tokens

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#11 Unread post by mhonzell »

This next token (F-17/388a) has strong ties to the period following the Revolutionary War when relations broke down between France and the US during John Adams presidency. The French were supposed to receive three ambassadors from the US, yet after arriving in France, were refused an audience for several weeks. Then, an emmissary approached the ambassadors demanding a bribe of $250,000 for the luxury of being seen (allow negotiations between France and the US to start.) The "offer" was unacceptable and Pinckney's acclaimed response was, "Millions for defence, but not a penny for tribute" This was the start of the Frency Quasi-war.

During the Civil War, France found it very difficult to remain neutral. They badly needed cotton and continually made efforts to negotiate with the South for trade. Both the Union and Britian repeatedly warned France to stay out of the South. The French heeded the warnings and eventually supplied the Union with $15M to build ironclad Monitors, leading the North to win the war.

The quote changed "penny" to "cent" and became a jab at the French for their earlier American snub.

Any ideas on why the beaver is at the bottom of the coin?
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#12 Unread post by dipper13 »

The beaver was a direct slam against France,the theme of your token also. In early America the French traded with the Northern Native Americans, the Iriquois and Algonquin tribes. Beaver was their goal and they later armed the tribes against the Brits. and colonists. This was a not so subtle reference to their treachery, the French and Indian war and the so called "beaver wars." Dan

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#13 Unread post by mhonzell »

I'll keep it simple today.
This one is a F-37/434a. (I mislabeled the picture.)

Similar Miss Liberty with cap, but a patriotic "Made is USA" logo on the back. Interestingly, the eagle stands over a globe. Was this a proclamation to the future of the US? Notice this Miss Liberty looks a bit upset compared to the last one.

It's hard to pin down the use of "For Public Accomodation", but I think it is a re-use of a phrase put on English shilling tokens made in Lancashire earlier in the 1800s. Britian had a similar problem with money and tokens were privately made to accomodate the continuance of trade.

When I first saw this one, I thought it must have been made without a collar. Looks like some of my ancient coins.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#14 Unread post by mhonzell »

If you find an interest in a particular "type" of coin, get the reference book on them. It'll make life so much more interesting and easily pays for itself.

For Civil War Tokens, there are actually two, of which, I only bought one since my current preference is to collect Patriotic tokens. The other book is on the thousand, or so, Store Card tokens.

The book: Patriotic Civil War Tokens by George and Melvin Fuld, 5th edition (~$30: It's kind of silly, but it costs the same in paperback or hardback, so you decide.)

Full of cross-reference tables showing which dies were used with each other, materials of the planchets, varieties, rarity, who designed them, how to attribute each token, and of course, pictures. (Unfortunately, all the pictures are black and white and a bit grainy, for me, but the 1st edition was written in the 70s.)

I took these example photos with my cell phone.
Cover.jpg
Example History.jpg
How to attribute varieties of a particular die:
Variety Determination.jpg
And, tabular listings of each variety. (Other tables based on these Fuld number give much more information.)
Muling of Dies.jpg
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#15 Unread post by Paul »

m, i think when it comes to "variety" finds/collecting of these....they just seem, "not to popular" with the 'variety guyz', like me.....i can only take an educated guess here, but it might be that they DID NOT have any 'monetary value'....coupled with the fact that they were not a "U.S. MINT" produced item...??

the 'makers' of these, supposedly, were not as "skilled" as a u.s. mint die maker, so, in turn, there would be more errors....?
this is just what i 'read into' the info i get when talking to others like me in the error circles.....as "collect-ability" goes.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#16 Unread post by mhonzell »

Yeah, I kind of came to that conclusion too.

Unlike coins, there are thousands of token designs/combinations. The only varieties that seem to get any distinction are full overstrikes and brokages. Then, they get new Fuld numbers and not a title on the variety.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#17 Unread post by mhonzell »

This and the last two tokens show Lady Liberty on the obverse. It is not too hard to see the differences in each even though they all present the same lady.

The first has a plain head band and six-pointed stars encircling her. The second has text instead of stars around her and six stars on her head band. This one (a F-1/391a) has six pointed stars around her and seven stars on her head band.

There are other obvious differences in the face and hair curls. Each lead to these unique numbers assigned.

On the reverse, you can see around the edge the remains of die alignment strikes.

The reverse shows the obvious use of the tokens as a means of collateral in trade.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#18 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

PALH1 wrote:m, i think when it comes to "variety" finds/collecting of these....they just seem, "not to popular" with the 'variety guyz', like me.....i can only take an educated guess here, but it might be that they DID NOT have any 'monetary value'....coupled with the fact that they were not a "U.S. MINT" produced item...??

the 'makers' of these, supposedly, were not as "skilled" as a u.s. mint die maker, so, in turn, there would be more errors....?
this is just what i 'read into' the info i get when talking to others like me in the error circles.....as "collect-ability" goes.
:agree: But........
Does anyone here think interest is influenced by economics which is influenced by availability?
(supply and demand- capitalism is not always a four letter word widegrin ). When we first start collecting (through purchases), it is almost always about cost.
Tokens have lots of availability and are relatively affordable. Tokens can definitely squash some interest by the numbers of poor quality dies and strikes (all about volume to make a buck or "cent" as it were). We all like collecting the best example of the coin type we like, whether proof, large cents, FE, Lincoln, but most tokens are affordable.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#19 Unread post by mhonzell »

Tokens are currently priced based on: authenticated and rarity.
Raw coins, even in superb condition are typically less than $50.
Authentication seems to approximately quadruple the price.
Grade is less important since an MS65 token may be showing a very poorly struck, but well kept token. And, conversely, a very well designed, intricately detailed token gets an AU58 for lack of luster, but is high on the rarity scale.

Rarity is a bit unique. We don't really know how many tokens of a particular variety were made. We can only assume based on the number of tokens found. This is similar to ancient coins. Tomorrow, some metal detecting fool may dig up a cache of these tokens making your R9 drop to a R2.

On the rarity scale:
A R1 is considered "common" with over 5000 known.
An R9 only has 2-5 known examples.

Along with rarity, some varieties ARE recognized and given unique Fuld numbers. They just don't list the common variety names on the holders, like "Brockage", "Overstrike", etc. Because only a few of these have been found, they are in the R7-R10 range and very costly.

But, think about that for a moment... if I told you there were only 5000 Indian Head Cents, what would they be worth? The problem stems not from the lack of unique tokens (thousands of designs/combinations were made.). It is the diversity of tokens and that they were not actually coinage (as Paul indicates) that is keeping them low in price.

As collectors discover this rich field of history, there may be a surge in value as the availabity shrinks quickly for the small numbers of tokens found for each unique combination.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#20 Unread post by Paul »

PetesPockets55 wrote:
PALH1 wrote:m, i think when it comes to "variety" finds/collecting of these....they just seem, "not to popular" with the 'variety guyz', like me.....i can only take an educated guess here, but it might be that they DID NOT have any 'monetary value'....coupled with the fact that they were not a "U.S. MINT" produced item...??

the 'makers' of these, supposedly, were not as "skilled" as a u.s. mint die maker, so, in turn, there would be more errors....?
this is just what i 'read into' the info i get when talking to others like me in the error circles.....as "collect-ability" goes.
:agree: But........
Does anyone here think interest is influenced by economics which is influenced by availability?
(supply and demand- capitalism is not always a four letter word widegrin ). When we first start collecting (through purchases), it is almost always about cost.
Tokens have lots of availability and are relatively affordable. Tokens can definitely squash some interest by the numbers of poor quality dies and strikes (all about volume to make a buck or "cent" as it were). We all like collecting the best example of the coin type we like, whether proof, large cents, FE, Lincoln, but most tokens are affordable.
c, don't get me wrong....i like tokens, mainly the 'store cards'. i just don't have the time to 'research' the "kind" i would actually buy. the whole "concept" is fascinating.
i bought a 1857 PEI, as it was one i researched & found interesting.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#21 Unread post by mhonzell »

Paul, thanks for the contribution!
While from Canada, I'd still put it in the Political token side based on the message.

"Store Cards" are a whole 'nother beast. Basically, an advertising campaign by separate merchants through the use of tokens that could be used as collateral for trade in their stores. Not sure how it worked if you took a "Store Card" to another store.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#22 Unread post by mhonzell »

Here's a token that moves away from the Lady Liberty theme and brings into view a building that was pretty new at the time of this coin. The patriotic token is a F-233/312a. You may have seen this building on the 2009 Lincoln cent. I especially like the ribbon on the reverse being tangled with swords and somewhat undone. On the IHC, this is neatly tied.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#23 Unread post by Paul »

interesting rev "wreath combo"......
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#24 Unread post by Daniel »

I love these coins!

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#25 Unread post by mhonzell »

You might recognize this next obverse bust from another coin, the Type 2 Indian Head Princess designed by Longacre. Missing is the word 'Liberty'. And, while there are 13 stars on the obverse indicating the original 13 states, there are only 12 stars on the Union shield and two additional out in the field. The shield doesn't come back to the cent until just a couple years ago.

Oh, yeah... the token is a F-51/342a.
This one was really tough to photograph because the token is in an older NGC holder and not parallel to the surfaces of the holder. Trying to get it parallel to the camera lens (manually holding it) while not shaking and getting the edging lit up was tough. There is also an ugly scuff on the plastic over the '1' in the date.

Within the Patriotic tokens, there are actually two groups: The pacifists and the non-pacifists. The pacifists were considered to be siding with the South and became known as the Copperheads because of the tokens they made, typically with slogans of peace. The Copperheads mostly lived in Ohio and New York and some resorted to violence to stop the war.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#26 Unread post by sidingguy »

those tokens are so cool...I've never seen any of them...Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#27 Unread post by Paul »

these are very kool m....how many do you have??
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#28 Unread post by mhonzell »

I have only three left to show you. I'm currently working 16 hour days, so I wasn't up to speed on getting another photo out. But, I'll try to get one done before I go to bed tonight.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#29 Unread post by mhonzell »

Long days and photography probably don't mix well, but here is today's token. A very interesting token that requires some examination.

First of all, you probably notice the fancy border around the center scene. This is unlike any other token. The man is wearing a tuxedo, a top hat and is sporting a beard... could it be ol' Abe Lincoln wielding a sword as he leads the way? In the background is one of the few representations of an ironclad found on these tokens. Being a Union token, it is likely a Monitor.

The reverse is also unique. While it still bears the common Army & Navy slogan, the letters are on a "curve", the wreath is different in that the two plants don't appear on any other token. (Compare with the previous Army & Navy token I posted.) And, the ribbon is neatly tied, not loose.

This is one of my favorites. A F-257/311a. It has a rarity of R3, which means there are only 500-2000 known. To me, it is undergraded, but that just means I got it cheaper.

(edited: Corrected the coloring.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#30 Unread post by mhonzell »

On the last token, you can make out a Monitor-class ironclad in the background. This token, a F-240/341a, displays the Mound City, a Union ironclad, plowing through the waters. The strike is not sharp, but you can make out the turret and cannon, a hoist on the rear deck, an access hatch and stern light pole, the flag waving proudly, and even the stacks on the foredeck.

On the reverse is a previously presented Union shield and logo. Only the date is different (1863, instead of 1864.) Interesting that the date is on the front and the back.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#31 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

mhonzell wrote:On the last token, you can make out a Monitor-class ironclad in the background. This token, a F-240/341a, displays the Mound City, a Union ironclad, plowing through the waters. The strike is not sharp, but you can make out the turret and cannon, a hoist on the rear deck, an access hatch and stern light pole, the flag waving proudly, and even the stacks on the foredeck.

On the reverse is a previously presented Union shield and logo. Only the date is different (1863, instead of 1864.) Interesting that the date is on the front and the back.
Well done Mark! That is interesting they would put the date on both sides.
Here is an interesting side note on ironclads. We have a family diary from the civil war. It has an entry from 1863 noting when the ship he was on passed the location where the Monitor went down off the coast of Cape Hatteras, NC. (My ancestor was on his way to the area around Port Hudson which was on the Mississippi defending the river access to Vicksburg.) It makes for interesting reading.
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The Monitor is on the left in this image. It was not sunk in battle but during a gale off Cape Hatteras.
The Monitor is on the left in this image. It was not sunk in battle but during a gale off Cape Hatteras.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#32 Unread post by mhonzell »

I think the Mound City was a Confederate ironclad... so, I goofed on my information.
Here's a picture of the Mound City:
Mound City ironclad.JPG
The crew on the USS Monitor:
Monitor.jpg
And, the USS Casco:
Ironclad-Civil-War.jpg
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#33 Unread post by mhonzell »

Well, I'm sure you were starting to wonder... did he finally run out of tokens? Not quite. I had one more, but we had a minor interruption... my work schedule.

So, I present, without further ado, the last of my tokens. An FS-223/328a. Sorry, that's for the techie who will wonder someday how to find one of their own.
I started with a Union token that bore a strong message on preserving the flag and this last one bears a new message: "The Federal Union, It Must and Shall By Preserved." While tokens are not identified by specific errors, but instead by the die used to make them, this one has an obvious error.

On the reverse is the Army and Navy slogan, but this time the two symbols associated with those branches of the military are proudly displayed on the token. Instead of a knot in the ribbon, we have an anchor, and at the top, the shining six-pointed star.

I didn't identify the sinkers as I went along, but I'll identify this one: The Waterbury Button Company. They've been in business since 1812 and still going strong. Both General Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant wore Waterbury buttons on their uniforms when they met at Appomattox Courthouse.
When two come to an agreement.jpg
Be the first to name the error type correctly!

In the meantime, give me a few months and I'll have gathered a few more. I really like these tokens and the history behind them. Hope you've enjoyed the thread.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#34 Unread post by mhonzell »

I couldn't resist. I came across this rather inexpensive token and it seemed to jump into my pocket. It looked nice and had a combination of dies I have not come across.

F-242/374a
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#35 Unread post by Daniel »

Here's a few of my favorites from the Civil War Token collection I bought.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#36 Unread post by mhonzell »

Awesome tokens! :cool:
Especially the Union For Ever. Superb strike on the princess.

I am so glad to see we have like tastes in something! happydance:
Great minds think alike, and all that. The good news is I have two of the three of those. The bad news is that Washington is tough to find with a decent strike. Always seems to have a weak left side, or the die is rusty leaving 'bumps' all over the field. I will eventually find one.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in the token collection.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#37 Unread post by Paul »

m,....d's wash. looks like a slight skew hammer k5-k11, imo
so, possibly they are all this way :dunno
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#38 Unread post by mhonzell »

Well, d posted his Liberty/Union, so I'll throw mine out there as it is nothing new. A F-236/426a.

I moved my camera so it wasn't so horizontal. Took a bit of work to get the color back to original.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#39 Unread post by mhonzell »

PALH1 wrote:m,....d's wash. looks like a slight skew hammer k5-k11, imo
so, possibly they are all this way
:agree: I've looked at quite a number of these F-119/398s and they all have that 'skewed' stamp on both the front and frequently on the back. Even the one's pictured in the reference book look that way.

This die is attributed to Emil Sigel who made a lot of dies. Bridgens and Horter were right across the street from Sigel and were known for off-center and misaligned dies. Maybe they actually made the coins from Sigel's die?
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#40 Unread post by mhonzell »

Here we have a F-196/355a, one of my few with a rarity of R3. The token is designed by Emil Sigel, who was one of the most prolific Civil War token makers. Most of his attempts display good skillfulness with almost no ornamentation. He used the 'Not One Cent' design often to give his token a better level of acceptance without conflicting with US Mint policies.

In regards to this token, you find "United States of America", "E Pluribus Unum", and an eagle, but only 12 stars indicating a Union shield on the obverse. The back is a copy of the Indian Head Cent with the addition of the word 'Not'. I really like the obverse design and would like to see it on a modern coin.

You can see Emil Sigel's initials to the left and right at the bottom of the shield. I'm curious why he put dots after the date. There is an odd die crack from the eagles head and up to the left. and if you look carefully in the fields you can make out indications of a die clash, but I don't think it is with the 'Not One Cent' reverse.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#41 Unread post by Paul »

m, nice toke, medal orientation strike?
possible 're-used' die here?
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#42 Unread post by mhonzell »

No, it's coin orientation strike. 'Re-used', maybe... book says it was only used with the 355 and 360. Both are 'Not One Cent' dies. Guess I'll put it under the scope to see if it can be made out better. Maybe just planchet flaws looking like something exists. There are other die cracks evident, so could just be an illusion of a clash.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#43 Unread post by Paul »

m,
i've been working on the LC "re-used" die, as my most recent 'project'.
:eureka:
it was NOT UN-COMMON to "re-use" a die....either a mis-hubbed mistake (like a doubled die, caught before use), or a 'worn out' (working) die. the 'die face' was ground off, & re-hubbed with the 'new face/design'. often, under very high magnification, you can still make out remnants of the underlying original design....very faintly....at the right angle/lighting. one key here is the micro-fine polishing lines that remained on the 'old die-face', when they 'final-polished' the die just before the new design was pressed in, that show up on/in the higher points of the new devices.
'seeing' oddball shaped wiggly, squiggly, straight, close shaped doubled, pointed,....so on, "shapes" that appear as light figures in the 'fields & devices', might/usually do indicate this 're-used die'......but, it takes a scope like mine to see/differentiate these.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#44 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-169/213a

The sinker for this pair of dies is unknown. On all other dies bearing a full cannon, there is a small stack of cannon guts sitting just in front of the cannon, but not on this one. The cannon points somewhat downwards, towards the ground. On the reverse, we have the Union flag, this time with only 12 stars (all the others have 25), and the liberty staff (flag pole) is splitting the date. After 10 versions of the standard message, “The Flag of Our Union”, it has been changed to “Stand By The Flag” and the 13 stars of the original colonies surrounding the flag have been removed.

Someone seems to be less hopeful that the nation will be restored.

The cannon should be rotated to be a coin strike, but it is actually about 100 degrees rotated clockwise.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#45 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-254/255a (Money Makes The Mare Go - Go It Buttons / Knickerbocker Currency)

William H. Bridgens is the die sinker for this humorous token. Like most of these die sinkers, they lived in the Lower Manhattan area.

The first tokens were made in Cincinnatti in late 1862. New York followed this idea in 1863 and the tokens were known as Lindenmeuller Currency. These were attributed to Gustavas Lindenmeuller, a barkeep. He made about one million tokens of various designs. Bridgens’ designs followed Lindenmeuller and were known as Knickerbocker Currency.

The phrase “Money Makes The Mare Go” is very old. It is sourced to 1609 in a British Museum:
Wilt thou lend me thy mare to ride but a mile?
No, she's lame goinge over a stile.
But if thou wilt her to me spare,
Thou shalt have mony for thy mare.
Ho ho say you soe
Mony shall make my mare to goe.

So the phrase means that if you are prepared to pay enough, most people will be willing to do something that at first they said they wouldn't or couldn't do “Knickerbocker” was a phrase that identified the Manhattan aristocracy and was later used to describe anyone from Manhattan. The funny part is that Diedrich Knickerbocker was a fictitious name created by an author to promote the sale of his book. So, I don’t know if the name is being used to say the currency was made in Manhattan, or if it is being described as fictitious. Maybe both.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#46 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-110/442a (George Washington / New York (1 Star))

Glaubrecht’s Washington : Distinguished by having six stars to the left and right of Washington with the top right star being close to his hairline. The reverse is a simple tribute to George J. Glaubrecht’s home. He worked with Charles D. Horter, who made use of some of these Washington hubs.

Interestingly, Glaubrecht lived at 95 Fulton St., New York, which is right across the street from today’s American Numismatic Society.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#47 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-163/352a (Union / Union 61 76)

Scovill Manufacturing Company, which is still in business as a Fortune 500 company, outdid themselves on this design. I’d like to see this on a modern coin. Most of Scovill tokens have bold strikes. Unfortunately, ‘UNION’ comes across a little weak on most of these shields. On the back are the draped flags and crossed-cannons. Each cannon representing the Union as the winner of a war, 1776 (Revolution) and 1861 (even though the Civil War was still being fought.)

Miss Liberty’s cap flies high on the pole. In case you didn’t know, that cap comes from a much earlier time. It is the style of cap worn by freed slaves in the Greek Empire. In fact, it is not Miss Liberty. She wasn't invented until WWI. Until then it was Columbia (Roman goddess), hence the tie to the Liberty Cap. (The cap is most often assumed to be a Phrygian cap, but actually it comes from Greece as the pileus.) Columbia was a key figure in early America... District of Columbia, Columbia University and Columbia River. Even Jules Verne named his spaceship the Columbiad.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#48 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-48/299a

While similar to several of the earlier designs I posted, Columbia is facing right and the message is unique: "United We Stand, Divided We Fall". This is the only one of these tokens I have that shows bluish tones. And, while graded MS-63, the reverse is obviously weak. Notice the right strand of leaves... the deep "holes" where the leaves wrap around. And, on the obverse, the 'E' is 'WE' is a different size of letter.

So, I posted this token specifically because the '&' on the reverse was so blunted. Look at it closely, then look at the close-up of the F-196, between the date and the word "United". You can make out the blunted ampersand, in reverse. Can you make out the word to the right of it?

The ampersand, as well as a bunch of other items on the F-196, are incuse and reversed implying that a brockage occurred to this token, and then possibly the token was "re-used" to make the F-196. The bottom picture is my guess of outlines (yellow) and die cracks (red) found to the right of the ampersand. You can also make out that it continues under the '1' in the date. If you want to help with the rest of the coin, let me know.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#49 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-141/307a (George B. McClellan / Army & Navy)

I've tried very hard not to repeat a single die in all these posts, even though some look the same. For instance, in this case, I have another Army & Navy reverse. Only a tiny bit different, this design is distinguished by the location of the left sword handle being under the 'N'. Others are identified by whether there are denticles, ribbon tied or not, location of berries on the wreath, plants used in the wreath, etc.

On the obverse is a fine portrait of George B. McClellan, the Democratic candidate for president in 1864. Abraham Lincoln removed him from command after he failed to capture Richmond. He went on to serve as governor of New Jersey. That moves this token into a sub-class of tokens known as a political token. A kind of campaign token of which there are only a few.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#50 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-191/443a (Pro Bono Publico / New York)



Well, this is it... I have no more, at least for some time as this has been a collection of the "easy" ones to get. 44 different dies out of the 537, or so possible dies. All patriotic tokens. Any that follow are much more difficult, or costly. As the obverse on this token states, "Pro Bono Publico". I have presented this thread as a means for those searching for Civil War Tokens to find some examples and some information on them. Even Daniel's pages are a bit limited on the topic, so I hope this helps. (Thanks for your patience.) I have placed some questions within the thread that I also hope some will chase down.

Another Sigel design, on the obverse, you again see the use of the Union shield, which you also find on modern day cents. This time, with 13 stars. The large five point star is associated with freedom and the designation for statehood. On the reverse, the "New York" logo. This time in small letters, but again, a tribute to the location where most of these tokens were being generated.
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