Civil War Tokens

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#31 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

mhonzell wrote:On the last token, you can make out a Monitor-class ironclad in the background. This token, a F-240/341a, displays the Mound City, a Union ironclad, plowing through the waters. The strike is not sharp, but you can make out the turret and cannon, a hoist on the rear deck, an access hatch and stern light pole, the flag waving proudly, and even the stacks on the foredeck.

On the reverse is a previously presented Union shield and logo. Only the date is different (1863, instead of 1864.) Interesting that the date is on the front and the back.
Well done Mark! That is interesting they would put the date on both sides.
Here is an interesting side note on ironclads. We have a family diary from the civil war. It has an entry from 1863 noting when the ship he was on passed the location where the Monitor went down off the coast of Cape Hatteras, NC. (My ancestor was on his way to the area around Port Hudson which was on the Mississippi defending the river access to Vicksburg.) It makes for interesting reading.
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The Monitor is on the left in this image. It was not sunk in battle but during a gale off Cape Hatteras.
The Monitor is on the left in this image. It was not sunk in battle but during a gale off Cape Hatteras.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#32 Unread post by mhonzell »

I think the Mound City was a Confederate ironclad... so, I goofed on my information.
Here's a picture of the Mound City:
Mound City ironclad.JPG
The crew on the USS Monitor:
Monitor.jpg
And, the USS Casco:
Ironclad-Civil-War.jpg
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#33 Unread post by mhonzell »

Well, I'm sure you were starting to wonder... did he finally run out of tokens? Not quite. I had one more, but we had a minor interruption... my work schedule.

So, I present, without further ado, the last of my tokens. An FS-223/328a. Sorry, that's for the techie who will wonder someday how to find one of their own.
I started with a Union token that bore a strong message on preserving the flag and this last one bears a new message: "The Federal Union, It Must and Shall By Preserved." While tokens are not identified by specific errors, but instead by the die used to make them, this one has an obvious error.

On the reverse is the Army and Navy slogan, but this time the two symbols associated with those branches of the military are proudly displayed on the token. Instead of a knot in the ribbon, we have an anchor, and at the top, the shining six-pointed star.

I didn't identify the sinkers as I went along, but I'll identify this one: The Waterbury Button Company. They've been in business since 1812 and still going strong. Both General Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant wore Waterbury buttons on their uniforms when they met at Appomattox Courthouse.
When two come to an agreement.jpg
Be the first to name the error type correctly!

In the meantime, give me a few months and I'll have gathered a few more. I really like these tokens and the history behind them. Hope you've enjoyed the thread.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#34 Unread post by mhonzell »

I couldn't resist. I came across this rather inexpensive token and it seemed to jump into my pocket. It looked nice and had a combination of dies I have not come across.

F-242/374a
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#35 Unread post by Daniel »

Here's a few of my favorites from the Civil War Token collection I bought.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#36 Unread post by mhonzell »

Awesome tokens! :cool:
Especially the Union For Ever. Superb strike on the princess.

I am so glad to see we have like tastes in something! happydance:
Great minds think alike, and all that. The good news is I have two of the three of those. The bad news is that Washington is tough to find with a decent strike. Always seems to have a weak left side, or the die is rusty leaving 'bumps' all over the field. I will eventually find one.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in the token collection.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#37 Unread post by Paul »

m,....d's wash. looks like a slight skew hammer k5-k11, imo
so, possibly they are all this way :dunno
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#38 Unread post by mhonzell »

Well, d posted his Liberty/Union, so I'll throw mine out there as it is nothing new. A F-236/426a.

I moved my camera so it wasn't so horizontal. Took a bit of work to get the color back to original.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#39 Unread post by mhonzell »

PALH1 wrote:m,....d's wash. looks like a slight skew hammer k5-k11, imo
so, possibly they are all this way
:agree: I've looked at quite a number of these F-119/398s and they all have that 'skewed' stamp on both the front and frequently on the back. Even the one's pictured in the reference book look that way.

This die is attributed to Emil Sigel who made a lot of dies. Bridgens and Horter were right across the street from Sigel and were known for off-center and misaligned dies. Maybe they actually made the coins from Sigel's die?
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#40 Unread post by mhonzell »

Here we have a F-196/355a, one of my few with a rarity of R3. The token is designed by Emil Sigel, who was one of the most prolific Civil War token makers. Most of his attempts display good skillfulness with almost no ornamentation. He used the 'Not One Cent' design often to give his token a better level of acceptance without conflicting with US Mint policies.

In regards to this token, you find "United States of America", "E Pluribus Unum", and an eagle, but only 12 stars indicating a Union shield on the obverse. The back is a copy of the Indian Head Cent with the addition of the word 'Not'. I really like the obverse design and would like to see it on a modern coin.

You can see Emil Sigel's initials to the left and right at the bottom of the shield. I'm curious why he put dots after the date. There is an odd die crack from the eagles head and up to the left. and if you look carefully in the fields you can make out indications of a die clash, but I don't think it is with the 'Not One Cent' reverse.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#41 Unread post by Paul »

m, nice toke, medal orientation strike?
possible 're-used' die here?
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#42 Unread post by mhonzell »

No, it's coin orientation strike. 'Re-used', maybe... book says it was only used with the 355 and 360. Both are 'Not One Cent' dies. Guess I'll put it under the scope to see if it can be made out better. Maybe just planchet flaws looking like something exists. There are other die cracks evident, so could just be an illusion of a clash.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#43 Unread post by Paul »

m,
i've been working on the LC "re-used" die, as my most recent 'project'.
:eureka:
it was NOT UN-COMMON to "re-use" a die....either a mis-hubbed mistake (like a doubled die, caught before use), or a 'worn out' (working) die. the 'die face' was ground off, & re-hubbed with the 'new face/design'. often, under very high magnification, you can still make out remnants of the underlying original design....very faintly....at the right angle/lighting. one key here is the micro-fine polishing lines that remained on the 'old die-face', when they 'final-polished' the die just before the new design was pressed in, that show up on/in the higher points of the new devices.
'seeing' oddball shaped wiggly, squiggly, straight, close shaped doubled, pointed,....so on, "shapes" that appear as light figures in the 'fields & devices', might/usually do indicate this 're-used die'......but, it takes a scope like mine to see/differentiate these.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#44 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-169/213a

The sinker for this pair of dies is unknown. On all other dies bearing a full cannon, there is a small stack of cannon guts sitting just in front of the cannon, but not on this one. The cannon points somewhat downwards, towards the ground. On the reverse, we have the Union flag, this time with only 12 stars (all the others have 25), and the liberty staff (flag pole) is splitting the date. After 10 versions of the standard message, “The Flag of Our Union”, it has been changed to “Stand By The Flag” and the 13 stars of the original colonies surrounding the flag have been removed.

Someone seems to be less hopeful that the nation will be restored.

The cannon should be rotated to be a coin strike, but it is actually about 100 degrees rotated clockwise.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#45 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-254/255a (Money Makes The Mare Go - Go It Buttons / Knickerbocker Currency)

William H. Bridgens is the die sinker for this humorous token. Like most of these die sinkers, they lived in the Lower Manhattan area.

The first tokens were made in Cincinnatti in late 1862. New York followed this idea in 1863 and the tokens were known as Lindenmeuller Currency. These were attributed to Gustavas Lindenmeuller, a barkeep. He made about one million tokens of various designs. Bridgens’ designs followed Lindenmeuller and were known as Knickerbocker Currency.

The phrase “Money Makes The Mare Go” is very old. It is sourced to 1609 in a British Museum:
Wilt thou lend me thy mare to ride but a mile?
No, she's lame goinge over a stile.
But if thou wilt her to me spare,
Thou shalt have mony for thy mare.
Ho ho say you soe
Mony shall make my mare to goe.

So the phrase means that if you are prepared to pay enough, most people will be willing to do something that at first they said they wouldn't or couldn't do “Knickerbocker” was a phrase that identified the Manhattan aristocracy and was later used to describe anyone from Manhattan. The funny part is that Diedrich Knickerbocker was a fictitious name created by an author to promote the sale of his book. So, I don’t know if the name is being used to say the currency was made in Manhattan, or if it is being described as fictitious. Maybe both.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#46 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-110/442a (George Washington / New York (1 Star))

Glaubrecht’s Washington : Distinguished by having six stars to the left and right of Washington with the top right star being close to his hairline. The reverse is a simple tribute to George J. Glaubrecht’s home. He worked with Charles D. Horter, who made use of some of these Washington hubs.

Interestingly, Glaubrecht lived at 95 Fulton St., New York, which is right across the street from today’s American Numismatic Society.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#47 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-163/352a (Union / Union 61 76)

Scovill Manufacturing Company, which is still in business as a Fortune 500 company, outdid themselves on this design. I’d like to see this on a modern coin. Most of Scovill tokens have bold strikes. Unfortunately, ‘UNION’ comes across a little weak on most of these shields. On the back are the draped flags and crossed-cannons. Each cannon representing the Union as the winner of a war, 1776 (Revolution) and 1861 (even though the Civil War was still being fought.)

Miss Liberty’s cap flies high on the pole. In case you didn’t know, that cap comes from a much earlier time. It is the style of cap worn by freed slaves in the Greek Empire. In fact, it is not Miss Liberty. She wasn't invented until WWI. Until then it was Columbia (Roman goddess), hence the tie to the Liberty Cap. (The cap is most often assumed to be a Phrygian cap, but actually it comes from Greece as the pileus.) Columbia was a key figure in early America... District of Columbia, Columbia University and Columbia River. Even Jules Verne named his spaceship the Columbiad.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#48 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-48/299a

While similar to several of the earlier designs I posted, Columbia is facing right and the message is unique: "United We Stand, Divided We Fall". This is the only one of these tokens I have that shows bluish tones. And, while graded MS-63, the reverse is obviously weak. Notice the right strand of leaves... the deep "holes" where the leaves wrap around. And, on the obverse, the 'E' is 'WE' is a different size of letter.

So, I posted this token specifically because the '&' on the reverse was so blunted. Look at it closely, then look at the close-up of the F-196, between the date and the word "United". You can make out the blunted ampersand, in reverse. Can you make out the word to the right of it?

The ampersand, as well as a bunch of other items on the F-196, are incuse and reversed implying that a brockage occurred to this token, and then possibly the token was "re-used" to make the F-196. The bottom picture is my guess of outlines (yellow) and die cracks (red) found to the right of the ampersand. You can also make out that it continues under the '1' in the date. If you want to help with the rest of the coin, let me know.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#49 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-141/307a (George B. McClellan / Army & Navy)

I've tried very hard not to repeat a single die in all these posts, even though some look the same. For instance, in this case, I have another Army & Navy reverse. Only a tiny bit different, this design is distinguished by the location of the left sword handle being under the 'N'. Others are identified by whether there are denticles, ribbon tied or not, location of berries on the wreath, plants used in the wreath, etc.

On the obverse is a fine portrait of George B. McClellan, the Democratic candidate for president in 1864. Abraham Lincoln removed him from command after he failed to capture Richmond. He went on to serve as governor of New Jersey. That moves this token into a sub-class of tokens known as a political token. A kind of campaign token of which there are only a few.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#50 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-191/443a (Pro Bono Publico / New York)



Well, this is it... I have no more, at least for some time as this has been a collection of the "easy" ones to get. 44 different dies out of the 537, or so possible dies. All patriotic tokens. Any that follow are much more difficult, or costly. As the obverse on this token states, "Pro Bono Publico". I have presented this thread as a means for those searching for Civil War Tokens to find some examples and some information on them. Even Daniel's pages are a bit limited on the topic, so I hope this helps. (Thanks for your patience.) I have placed some questions within the thread that I also hope some will chase down.

Another Sigel design, on the obverse, you again see the use of the Union shield, which you also find on modern day cents. This time, with 13 stars. The large five point star is associated with freedom and the designation for statehood. On the reverse, the "New York" logo. This time in small letters, but again, a tribute to the location where most of these tokens were being generated.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#51 Unread post by Daniel »

I love them all, some I've had but not always the same die pair. Thanks for posting all these! :winnah:

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#52 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-239/421a (Our Little Monitor)

This Union ironclad depiction is awesome. Look closely at the front cannon and you can see the spray marks from the cannon being fired, the billowing cloud of smoke, the railing about the ship and the items on the ship's topside. You can just make out stripes in the flag and the skipjack flies sharply, as does the smoke trailing to the right, indicating the ship is at speed. Even the waves are unique compared to other water scenes on coins or tokens. (If you look back a ways in these posts, you'll find a picture of the crew sitting aboard the USS Monitor. The cannon dome is the same as depicted on the token.)

The token was designed by an unknown die sinker in the vicinity of the Waterbury Button Company. Most of the tokens designed by this sinker have a two-toned planchet where one side is brass-toned on one side and copper-toned on the other. (See prior example from same company.)

This token is also unique in how it presents the date. The reverse has both the Navy and Army insignia.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#53 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

Mark, Very nice. Interesting to say the least. Lots of unique detail. Is this one of your own?

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#54 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-97-389a

Here's a message from the Copperheads, the South sympathizers. Or, maybe just disgruntled by the high cost of war and wanting it to end for any reason. Designed by Emil Sigel, it carries finer details than most and survived really well.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#55 Unread post by Paul »

this one is my fav.....
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#56 Unread post by Daniel »

It's one of mine as well; the Civil War was a sad time in US History. Some people don't realize it was literally neighbor against neighbor and that your land could have been invaded anytime by the enemy, and your goods stolen, house took over or burned, wife and daughters raped and you might have lost your life in the process.

All that by fellow US Citizens. If you think the movie Purge was bad read the nitty-gritty on the Civil War.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#57 Unread post by mhonzell »

I know somewhere back there I mention the Liberty Cap coming from the Greek empire. What you may not know is that there is some contention as to whether it was an American idea or French idea to place on "modern" coins. If you look at some of the early American coins you'll find that pileus stuck on a stick being held by Lady Liberty (Columbia.) And, since the French Revolution came after our revolution... well, let's just say I think it might have been an American idea.

As Daniel stated, a civil war is the worst type of war. We fight our brothers and neighbors. So this Copperhead message was pretty clear.

In case you think that is a repeat of the left-facing Liberty from tokens I've shown before, count the stars in the headband.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#58 Unread post by mhonzell »

Another Copperhead idea... End the War! This is Our Country. Later the message becomes, this is One Country.
F-230/352Ba

(Somewhere else you've seen the 352. The 352B has the fuse ports on the cannons.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#59 Unread post by mhonzell »

(Forgot to put in the Fuld number... F-136/397a. Someone, someday, may search for this.) lol:

In 1863, the Union is not fairing well. The economy in the cities has broken down and after several attempts to institute emergency money, nothing has worked. Groups of "Peace Democrats" are becoming vocal about compromising with the South and ending the war. If only we would honor the original ideas of the Founding Fathers. My how the tables have turned over the years. These "Peace Democrats" were known as Copperheads and they used the one form of emergency currency that worked to protest the war with messages of Hope and Peace.

But, there were those who had had enough and answered with their own messages in token form and through the press. Andrew Jackson supporters threw down the gauntlet and Abraham Lincoln banished some to Confederate lines. (Andrew Jackson supporters founded the Democratic Party.) It was bad enough have a North / South war. Now the Union was fighting itself. (Reminds me of the Vietnam era coming to a close.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#60 Unread post by Paul »

I LOVE THESE POSTS M..... :trophy:
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#61 Unread post by mhonzell »

Thanks! They are fun to collect and comment upon.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#62 Unread post by Daniel »

Yea, me too. I think it's great but sad history.

One thing to learn from all of this is that this country hasn't always been problem free from the beginning. We have had some decades that were peaceful to make it seem like there's the good old times, and add to that we tend to attach much emotion to life events when we're young.

So all of us think it was better when we were young but in reality, if you read history, you will see it wasn't the best then either. When I was born and through my first years we had Vietnam but I was having a grand old time and seemed like the best times.

It was followed by over a decade of mostly peace but still remember a few bad things in the news during the 80's and then the Gulf War came about. So yes we can gain some perspectives of life through history.

Keep them coming M!

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#63 Unread post by mhonzell »

For those with an interest, the Civil War Token Society has finally updated the United States Civil War Store Card book. The previous book, the 2nd edition was last updated in 1975. This edition adds many new tokens, includes color photographs on glossy paper and has a section on Hard Rubber Tokens (also used during the Civil War era.)

How are these different than Patriotic Civil War Tokens?
They advertise the store they were made for instead of supporting the need for emergency money.



This does not include Patriotic Civil War tokens, which I pointed out in an earlier post.

Cost of the new reference: $100
About the price of one graded mint state token to learn about the thousands of types that were made.

(I do not own the example below. I'm waiting on the book to arrive to see if there is a direction I want to pursue.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#64 Unread post by mhonzell »

Well, it had to happen eventually... I'm posting a repeat die. The reverse is a die I have posted before, but the token is a different one. Why? Because this combination with the Tradesmens Currency only occurs with the 434 reverse.

F-202/434a

This token represents that crossover boundary between Store Card and Patriotic Civil War Token. The token is simply pointing out that this token is good for 1 cent worth of goods. At the same time, it points out it is not legal currency. The reason it is not a Store Card is that it is good at all locations. It does not advertise any particular store, so it is grouped with the Patriotic tokens.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#65 Unread post by Daniel »

Nice!

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#66 Unread post by mhonzell »

I put this token on the Memorial Day thread. As Paul pointed out with his article, Memorial Day came to us as a result of the Civil War. Initially, the North and the South celebrated different days by dressing up soldier's gravestones with flowers and flags. Later, they both compromised to celebrate the same day. While this token doesn't actually celebrate Memorial Day, it does point to a particular event during the war... Abraham Lincoln honoring the fallen:
Abraham Lincoln : November 19, 1863 wrote: Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that “all men are created equal.”

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle field of that war. We come to dedicate a portion of it, as a final resting place for those who died here, that the nation might live. This we may, in all propriety do.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate – we can not consecrate – we can not hallow, this ground – The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have hallowed it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here; while it can never forget what they did here.

It is rather for us, the living, we here be dedicated to the great task remaining before us – that, from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here, gave the last full measure of devotion – that we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain; that the nation, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#67 Unread post by mhonzell »

George Brinton McClellan was a character. Somewhat insubordinate to Abraham Lincoln, he was sent out to Virginia to test his mettle. Order to defeat Robert E. Lee and capture Richmond, Virginia, Ol' George seems to have somehow always to have been going the other way when General Lee showed up. But, as circumstances would have it, he arrived at Antietam about the time General Lee did and had no where he could walk off to be a bit safer. It was a bloody battle, and to Ol' George's tribtute, he managed to stop General Lee from advancing any further. But, he did not defeat Lee and he failed to take Richmond, Virginia. Abraham Lincoln was not impressed and relieved George of his command.

Well, what to do with all this time as a failed military leader? ... Run for President of the United States. Unfortunately, he was running against Abraham Lincoln as the Democratic candidate. He was not elected, so he ran for Governor of New Jersey. He won! (That should tell you something about New Jersey.

What do you give a failed military leader? A medal... worth one cent.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#68 Unread post by Daniel »

Love the history.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#69 Unread post by mhonzell »

Found this token to be interesting on several levels: F-58/439a

First, the token is oversized. About the size of a quarter at 24mm, whereas all the others have been about the size of a normal cent.
Second, it has a straight clip across the top.
Third, it was struck as a medal instead of a US coin.

The obverse is fairly common except that it is signed by it's creator: L. Roloff.
The reverse is very unique!
Most people think these are Masonic symbols. Some of them did eventually become Masonic symbols, but these are actually symbols of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows. This order established homes for senior members and orphans. While the order originated in England, there were disputes between the American and English versions. So, in 1843, some of the American lodges broke off and formed the Independent Order. The group accepted both men and women members, which was highly unusual. Today, the order is international and going strong.

The rings represent: Friendship, Love and Truth.
The heart in hand represents: Charity, and is associated with the Shakers in the Northeast.
The all-seeing eye represents: God.
The bow and arrows represent: (Still looking on this one.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#70 Unread post by Paul »

VERY COOL M,
i don't think i've see a 'straight clipped' token/medal. :trophy:
SREC1, or mid-strip?...if ya know??

1. STRAIGHT RAGGED END CLIP (punched from the 'end' of the planchet making roll/strip)
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