Civil War Tokens

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#71 Unread post by mhonzell »

I'm not sure it is the end of the roll. A close-up shows it to be fairly squared off.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#72 Unread post by Paul »

m,
i just saw the 2 'weak/shallow' stars @ the clip, thinking there might be a 'taper' to the planchet (end of strip) ??
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#73 Unread post by mhonzell »

Yes, those two stars are weak and on the other side, it is somewhat weak and a bit rough. It's difficult to determine if it is tapered on this end, but the strike does seem to indicate that it is. I think you may be correct on this one. I just didn't see the indicators you were seeing.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#74 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-34/276a
This is a product of the Shubael D. Childs' shop in Chicago and one of the rarest copper tokens using F-34 (Coronet, or Liberty Cap) as the obverse. Childs produced relatively few patriotic issues and those issues are generally scarcer than tokens from other manufacturers. As a result, the obverse is the Patriotic Die and the reverse is bordering on being a Store Card. But, no store is designated keeping this token in the Patriotic Token attribution.

The 277 reverse is very close to the 276 reverse used here but is much more common. The 276 issue can be determined by looking at the bottom of the C compared to the bottom of the A in CARD. In 277 the bottom of the C is about even with the bottom of the A but in 276 it is distinctly below. With coins, this might be considered a variety. But, with tokens, it is considered a separate combination since it is obvious that a different die has been used on the reverse.

If you see one of these offered, be very careful to make sure that it is accurately identified.
This one is graded as an AU50 and has a rarity of R-6, meaning there are estimated to be between 21 and 75. It is now the rarest token I own. (There are 7 graded and I've seen one raw, which may now be one of the 7 graded.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#75 Unread post by Paul »

mhonzell wrote:I'm not sure it is the end of the roll. A close-up shows it to be fairly squared off.
so no one gets 'clip-fused', m's coin is a "straight" clip, NOT a 'ragged' clip
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#76 Unread post by mhonzell »

Other than the end of a roll, how would a straight clip occur?
Of course, you also have to remember, these tokens were not being produced at the mint. The process we think of today was not the process then, especially by these localized shops.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#77 Unread post by Paul »

i don't know the exact token/medal 'blank' making process from them.....i never had the need to 'study it',

:dunno sorry :dunno
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#78 Unread post by mhonzell »

Found some information:

It is thought by most that a straight clip occurs by reaching the end of the roll and the circular punch overlaps this edge. This is a possibility, but... the actual end edge of the roll will show layering as a result of the process of rolling the metal to achieve the desired thickness. Any coin made from the edge will have the following appearance:
StraightClip-Edge.jpg
Instead, most straight clips are a result of the roll slipping backwards slightly as it settles after passing under the cutter creating a shorter piece of flat stock to be punched. Again, the circular punch overlaps this edge and creates the straight clip. This 'sheared' edge has a completely different appearance than the one above:
ShearedClip-Edge.jpg
Based on this, my straight clipped token would be the later type.
Again, a true clipped edge should exhibit the Blakesly effect. For a straight clip, this effect should be an even larger area of the rim on the opposite side from the clip. The tapering of the clipped edge may simply be a lack of metal flowing into the unfilled area during the strike. The rim should show tapering at the edge near the clip due to this metal flow. See the above two photos. (Very difficult to counterfeit.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#79 Unread post by Daniel »

Back then they used shears to cut the metal stock and sometimes planchets got punch-cut with these edges cut with shears. So a ragged edge clip is different then than it is now.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#80 Unread post by Paul »

LC EXAMPLE
hugeeyes
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#81 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-127/248a
After a battle of skirmish during the Civil War it was someone’s job to report the casualties, and if there were no casualties a post would read O.K. (or zero casualties).

Finding Lincoln's in good shape and affordable can be difficult.
13 stars on the front, 13 chain links on the back.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#82 Unread post by mhonzell »

Unfortunately, you guys are going to miss a few tokens while the site is being rebuilt. So, I'll use this time to post some of the less stellar ones. You might have to go back a page, or two to see what you missed. widegrin

F-188/384a
A R-3 token with a fairly interesting design... a beehive and a few bees floating about it. The reverse has the common logo of 'Not One Cent', but the fully circling wreath is uncommon. This one got a grade of AU details due to the scratches on the front around the '18' in the date. The reverse is also rotated about 45 degrees from normal.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#83 Unread post by Daniel »

We wont lose a thing, all this is mostly cosmetic changes with some new features and some I can't use anymore with this newer software edition. It was 3.0.13 but now it's 3.1.5 and most features have not been developed for this latest version.

We even have a notifications button that let's you know when there's a response, so it's just a matter of getting used to the changes and learning where some are.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#84 Unread post by mhonzell »

I wasn't worried about losing anything.
We just currently don't have that sidebar indicating most recent changes to make it easy finding new posts. I'm having to remember how to see the new posts. :-)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#85 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

[quote="mhonzell"]I wasn't worried about losing anything.
We just currently don't have that sidebar indicating most recent changes to make it easy finding new posts. I'm having to remember how to see the new posts. :-)[/quote]

That side bar was very helpful for old "stiff" minds to follow what topics are being discussed! And which ones we may have missed. :confused:

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#86 Unread post by Paul »

[quote="mhonzell"]Unfortunately, you guys are going to miss a few tokens while the site is being rebuilt. So, I'll use this time to post some of the less stellar ones. You might have to go back a page, or two to see what you missed. widegrin

F-188/384a
A R-3 token with a fairly interesting design... a beehive and a few bees floating about it. The reverse has the common logo of 'Not One Cent', but the fully circling wreath is uncommon. This one got a grade of AU details due to the scratches on the front around the '18' in the date. The reverse is also rotated about 45 degrees from normal.[/quote]

m,
for the 'honey' industry...?
what's the CD,..II(?)....under the left bottom of the hive plz ??
kinda big for a D.I.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#87 Unread post by mhonzell »

The CDH are the initials of the sinker.
Charles D. Horter
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#88 Unread post by mhonzell »

These die sinkers did not just make tokens in their shops and sell them to merchants. They occasionally traveled about attending town fairs or world exhibitions with their hand-held presses making numismatic strikes for locals. Frequently these involved stamping over existing coins: an Indian Head Cent, a dime, sometimes over other tokens. But, willing to pay an extra cent, or two, and seeking their own personally made token, these collectors would bring a small round slug of metal to be made into a token. As a result, some of these tokens are one of a kind because of the metal they are stamped upon and not as well shaped as a normal token.

The most common numismatic strikes were made on thin brass planchets. The really oddball ones were made on "white metal". Sometimes, this "white metal" was pewter, tin, or a mixture of "white" metals. This "white" metal would quickly corrode by turning dark if touched. So, finding one intact is difficult if it was not stored well. Additoinally, the dies were typically a much harder iron, which made them subject to the weather while traveling. The dies developed rust spots, which then transfered to the tokens when formed.

The stamping device used on the road was originally used to make medals, seals, or buttons.
Traveling Stamp Press
Traveling Stamp Press

The token below was made up under these conditions for someone collecting tokens. Typical of a silvery coin, it was difficult to photograph. The dies used were F-1 and F-436. Both are assigned to Emil Sigel, who lived in New York City. The token was stamped on “white metal” (not silver) and on the obverse you can see where the rusty die made small pips on the surface. Currently, there are only three of these tokens that I have seen. Two are graded by NGC (a MS-62 and a MS-63) and one is raw (potentially, MS-64.) But, it is estimated there are between 11 and 20 still in existence making this a rarity-7 token.
F-1/436e MS-63
F-1/436e MS-63
F-1/436e MS-63
F-1/436e MS-63
I think I got a great deal on this one at $206.

The MS-62 had a very uneven surface and was selling for $395. (Not eBay.)
F-1/436e MS-62
F-1/436e MS-62
The MS-64 looked the same to me as the MS-63, it was selling for $286 (current bid: personal dealer, not eBay), and was still raw.
F-1/436e MS-64? (raw)
F-1/436e MS-64? (raw)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#89 Unread post by Paul »

very kool m, :thumbsup:

curiosity question:
who?....what/when/where/how....you know what i'm gett'n at.....
choose.....picked/decided on....what "phrase" they put on these tokens?
like 'united country' on this one whistling2:
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#90 Unread post by mhonzell »

If you are asking specifically who, it was typically the die sinker and his view of the country. In this case, the reverse die was made by Emil Sigel.
He typically only made coins labeled "Not One Cent" since he was mostly into the merchant dealings and didn't want to be labeled a counterfeiter. But, he did make other designs. He also sold his designs, on occasion to the guy across the street, Charles D. Horter, who was a bit sloppier than Emil Sigel. So, the designs are typically attributed to the sinker.

This token could easily have been owned by Horter, who was out at a bash somewhere and a collector simply wanted a strike of his own. Horter would then have put two dies together out of his bag either by his choice or the collector's choice and made the token.

Some of the token phrases are by those who hated the war, some by those who wanted it to end no matter the cost, and others who simply wanted the country to stay together. These typically belong to the Copperheads. Another group tend to be political in nature and supported our leaders. The last group was those that just copied local phrases, or phrases that already existed on coins and tokens.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#91 Unread post by Paul »

thx m :yourock:

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#92 Unread post by Daniel »

I am working on the thanks but it's not cooperating, but it will be back.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#93 Unread post by Paul »

GET BIGGER HAMMER :mad:
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#94 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-128/289b

Like the last token, this is a numismatic strike made for a collector being made of brass. Unfortunately, due to the elections that were going on, this token became a presidential campaign token and got passed around much like our modern day campaign signs. "A vote for Lincoln." So, it is a little bit more circulated than the others at AU58. (Also, I quickly shot these photos on my way to work this morning. So, they didn't get the normal experimentation to find the "best" shot.)

Although Lincoln won both elections he participated in, he was not well liked while he was alive. In his first election, he only garnered about 40% of the popular vote, but it was a four way race, and that 40% was enough to get enough electoral votes to win.
Additionally, the newspapers where much harsher in those days! Slander was a meaningless word and the papers would print just about anything about someone they didn't like.

For example:
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#95 Unread post by Paul »

PALH1 wrote:thx m :yourock:

"where is the 'thanks 4 post' button"?

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#96 Unread post by mhonzell »

Nice button!

One more before I head off to Tennessee.
Not in the best of shape, but interesting due to the reverse motto.

"No North, No South, No East, No West" was originally written by a Confederate soldier serving the 3rd Infantry in Tennessee. A man known as Sam Watkins.
The phrase became popular in some areas of the North. But, I can't figure out if this is a Union or Confederate token.

The obverse has 13 stars surrounding the flag, but 16 stars on the flag (not really visible.)
And, the back also states, One Country.

Probably a Copperhead token.

F-216/293a
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#97 Unread post by Daniel »

We have our thanks button back, it's the last button in the upper right corner of each post.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#98 Unread post by mhonzell »

Towards the end of the Civil War Token reign, some people started making their own tokens out of cheap metal (pewter) and even hard rubber. The merchants were not all happy to see these white or rubber tokens. So, they came up with today's token offering the buyer a 20 percent discount if they paid with copper.

I really love the sailing ship on the obverse. One of my favorite devices to find on coins and tokens.

F-259/445
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#99 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

The engraver got a real nice effect with the billowing sails.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#100 Unread post by mhonzell »

Yep, love the sails.

Kind of wonder what he was thinking when he made the stars... notice the faint, smaller fourth star on the right, and the lower star on the left has a smaller double poking out above it.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#101 Unread post by mhonzell »

Well, I can tell I'm starting to wear everyone down with this thread, so I'll just post a couple of tokens and go quiet for a little while.

For those Northerners who were getting fed up with those honorary Copperheads, we have a very specific message:
F-107/432a
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#102 Unread post by Paul »

m, i've seen a few of these with "traitor" on them...
was this a big problem?
....either 'refusing to fight', or 'changing sides'.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#103 Unread post by mhonzell »

Copperheads were a real problem. Basically, like the Democrats of today who become war weary rather quickly and would do anything to stop the fighting so that business would get back to normal. Some were actually arrested and "deported" to the South. But, the reality is that the South didn't like them either. They were recognized as complaining business men and wouldn't fight for either side.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#104 Unread post by Paul »

ty m, :thumbsup:
i like the first 'toon'

i don't recall if you told me yet......
"why", was a 'traitor' called a "copperhead"?
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#105 Unread post by mhonzell »

Copperheads

Copperheads were part of a radical element of the Democratic Party during the Civil War. The year before the Civil War actually erupted at Fort Sumter, the secession crisis was lead by some Democrats in the North.

What they did, or better yet what they stood for, was dismissing their own Union countrymen and Union Army, against the attack in the war with the Southern secessionist. To thoroughly understand their platform, one must understand succession and Democratic and Republican views, on the Northern side.

They got their name because they wore copper pennies that would be stamped through with a hole and pinned to their lapels identifying them as ‘Copperheads of the Peace Democrats’. The Southern leaders did not mind that the infrastructure of the Union was being beset on all sides by various political groups that opposed the war. It was a war that the Rebels were not going to win and the only hope was that the interior political atmosphere would be so troubled that the option of stopping the war was very real.

They were also known as the Peace Democrats. They were a group of people who craved peace. They were so against the war that they resisted draft laws, tried to persuade Union troops to leave the war, and blamed the war on abolitionists.

Clement L. Valladigham of Ohio was a major leader in the movement. He was in charge of the antiwar organization the Sons of Liberty. At the Democratic convention of 1864, where the influence of Peace Democrats reached its high point, Valladigham persuaded the party to adopt a platform branding the war a failure, and some extreme Copperheads plotted armed uprisings. However, George B. McClellan was somewhat pro-war and this contradiction made Lincoln’s victory in the election almost inevitable.

With the conclusion of the Civil War in 1865 the Peace Democrats were thoroughly discredited. Most Northerners believed, not without reason, that Peace Democrats had prolonged the war by encouraging the South to continue fighting in the hope that the North would abandon the struggle. The end of the Civil War meant the total disintegration of the group as a political voice of power. Only the memories of the political party remain today.
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mhonzell
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#106 Unread post by mhonzell »

Some of you may remember the prior token honoring McClellan with the 1 Cent Medal... (sarcasm)

Where here is one actually honoring five Union soldiers at Wilson's Creek Battle. Each received the Medal of Honor.
Excerpt from Nicolas Boquet, one of the medal reciepients. (Medal received in 1897.)

"We all wanted to have a whack at the Rebels before going home, and, as luck would have it, Company D, to which I belonged, along with Company E, were detailed by Lieutenant-Colonel Merritt to support Totten's Battery. This order brought us into a hand-to-hand contest with the enemy, and, although we were engaging a superior force, we four times repulsed them.

When the retreat of our forces was ordered, after General Lyon had fallen, one of the guns of Totten's Battery had been left behind, because one of its horses had been killed. Being this time on the skirmish line, I was called by the gunner of the piece to help catch a riderless horse which was galloping about the field between the lines. To catch this horse was to save the gun from falling into the enemy's hands--a most important factor in battle.
The enemy were closing in upon us, but, with the thought of saving the gun, not heeding the rain of bullets from both lines, we started after the horse, and in a short time had him. Leading him with all possible haste to the abandoned gun, we soon had him hitched to it, and away we went, following the retreating regiment, and in a short time had it safely within the lines of our army."
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#107 Unread post by mhonzell »

Last one for a while...
F-151/430a

One of my favorites by Emil Sigel. If only this had been put on the half dollars!
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#108 Unread post by mhonzell »

I haven't posted a token in a while, so thought I'd drop one in.

Another sublte message from the Copperheads on the F-118/418a. Note the North and South written on the cuffs of the two hands shaking.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#109 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-168/311a

Unlike a prior cannon token that I posted, this one has cannon guts ready to fire and the cannon points a bit upwards.

(Trying to find one from the South that I can afford. lol: )
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#110 Unread post by mhonzell »

Believe it, or not... I am approaching an end to these Patriotic Civil War tokens. Those that remain are a bit out of my reach, so far and it is becoming much more difficult to find the one's I am missing.
That said, here is a F-450/471a. It is known as a Half-Store Card.

Of the three main groups of Civil War Tokens (Sutler, Store Cards, and Patriotics), the Patriotics are a bit of a collection point for all the ungrouped types. A Half-Store Card displays a patriotic device on one side and a Store Card device on the other, BUT... the Store Card side does not indicate from where it originates.

In the day, these people did not have fancy words like Pharmacy. They just called it like it was... Drugs. So, here is an advertisement for someone's drug store with a Dandelion on the obverse. What in the world do these have in common?

Dandelion Bitters were a common remedy for a number of ailments: whooping cough, liver problems, digestion, etc. Thing is... it was actually pretty effective with digestive problems and is still made today as a home remedy.
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