Civil War Tokens

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#61 Unread post by mhonzell »

Thanks! They are fun to collect and comment upon.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#62 Unread post by Daniel »

Yea, me too. I think it's great but sad history.

One thing to learn from all of this is that this country hasn't always been problem free from the beginning. We have had some decades that were peaceful to make it seem like there's the good old times, and add to that we tend to attach much emotion to life events when we're young.

So all of us think it was better when we were young but in reality, if you read history, you will see it wasn't the best then either. When I was born and through my first years we had Vietnam but I was having a grand old time and seemed like the best times.

It was followed by over a decade of mostly peace but still remember a few bad things in the news during the 80's and then the Gulf War came about. So yes we can gain some perspectives of life through history.

Keep them coming M!

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#63 Unread post by mhonzell »

For those with an interest, the Civil War Token Society has finally updated the United States Civil War Store Card book. The previous book, the 2nd edition was last updated in 1975. This edition adds many new tokens, includes color photographs on glossy paper and has a section on Hard Rubber Tokens (also used during the Civil War era.)

How are these different than Patriotic Civil War Tokens?
They advertise the store they were made for instead of supporting the need for emergency money.



This does not include Patriotic Civil War tokens, which I pointed out in an earlier post.

Cost of the new reference: $100
About the price of one graded mint state token to learn about the thousands of types that were made.

(I do not own the example below. I'm waiting on the book to arrive to see if there is a direction I want to pursue.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#64 Unread post by mhonzell »

Well, it had to happen eventually... I'm posting a repeat die. The reverse is a die I have posted before, but the token is a different one. Why? Because this combination with the Tradesmens Currency only occurs with the 434 reverse.

F-202/434a

This token represents that crossover boundary between Store Card and Patriotic Civil War Token. The token is simply pointing out that this token is good for 1 cent worth of goods. At the same time, it points out it is not legal currency. The reason it is not a Store Card is that it is good at all locations. It does not advertise any particular store, so it is grouped with the Patriotic tokens.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#65 Unread post by Daniel »

Nice!

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#66 Unread post by mhonzell »

I put this token on the Memorial Day thread. As Paul pointed out with his article, Memorial Day came to us as a result of the Civil War. Initially, the North and the South celebrated different days by dressing up soldier's gravestones with flowers and flags. Later, they both compromised to celebrate the same day. While this token doesn't actually celebrate Memorial Day, it does point to a particular event during the war... Abraham Lincoln honoring the fallen:
Abraham Lincoln : November 19, 1863 wrote: Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that “all men are created equal.”

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle field of that war. We come to dedicate a portion of it, as a final resting place for those who died here, that the nation might live. This we may, in all propriety do.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate – we can not consecrate – we can not hallow, this ground – The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have hallowed it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here; while it can never forget what they did here.

It is rather for us, the living, we here be dedicated to the great task remaining before us – that, from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here, gave the last full measure of devotion – that we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain; that the nation, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
F-244/381a
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#67 Unread post by mhonzell »

George Brinton McClellan was a character. Somewhat insubordinate to Abraham Lincoln, he was sent out to Virginia to test his mettle. Order to defeat Robert E. Lee and capture Richmond, Virginia, Ol' George seems to have somehow always to have been going the other way when General Lee showed up. But, as circumstances would have it, he arrived at Antietam about the time General Lee did and had no where he could walk off to be a bit safer. It was a bloody battle, and to Ol' George's tribtute, he managed to stop General Lee from advancing any further. But, he did not defeat Lee and he failed to take Richmond, Virginia. Abraham Lincoln was not impressed and relieved George of his command.

Well, what to do with all this time as a failed military leader? ... Run for President of the United States. Unfortunately, he was running against Abraham Lincoln as the Democratic candidate. He was not elected, so he ran for Governor of New Jersey. He won! (That should tell you something about New Jersey.

What do you give a failed military leader? A medal... worth one cent.
F-143/261a
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#68 Unread post by Daniel »

Love the history.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#69 Unread post by mhonzell »

Found this token to be interesting on several levels: F-58/439a

First, the token is oversized. About the size of a quarter at 24mm, whereas all the others have been about the size of a normal cent.
Second, it has a straight clip across the top.
Third, it was struck as a medal instead of a US coin.

The obverse is fairly common except that it is signed by it's creator: L. Roloff.
The reverse is very unique!
Most people think these are Masonic symbols. Some of them did eventually become Masonic symbols, but these are actually symbols of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows. This order established homes for senior members and orphans. While the order originated in England, there were disputes between the American and English versions. So, in 1843, some of the American lodges broke off and formed the Independent Order. The group accepted both men and women members, which was highly unusual. Today, the order is international and going strong.

The rings represent: Friendship, Love and Truth.
The heart in hand represents: Charity, and is associated with the Shakers in the Northeast.
The all-seeing eye represents: God.
The bow and arrows represent: (Still looking on this one.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#70 Unread post by Paul »

VERY COOL M,
i don't think i've see a 'straight clipped' token/medal. :trophy:
SREC1, or mid-strip?...if ya know??

1. STRAIGHT RAGGED END CLIP (punched from the 'end' of the planchet making roll/strip)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#71 Unread post by mhonzell »

I'm not sure it is the end of the roll. A close-up shows it to be fairly squared off.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#72 Unread post by Paul »

m,
i just saw the 2 'weak/shallow' stars @ the clip, thinking there might be a 'taper' to the planchet (end of strip) ??
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#73 Unread post by mhonzell »

Yes, those two stars are weak and on the other side, it is somewhat weak and a bit rough. It's difficult to determine if it is tapered on this end, but the strike does seem to indicate that it is. I think you may be correct on this one. I just didn't see the indicators you were seeing.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#74 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-34/276a
This is a product of the Shubael D. Childs' shop in Chicago and one of the rarest copper tokens using F-34 (Coronet, or Liberty Cap) as the obverse. Childs produced relatively few patriotic issues and those issues are generally scarcer than tokens from other manufacturers. As a result, the obverse is the Patriotic Die and the reverse is bordering on being a Store Card. But, no store is designated keeping this token in the Patriotic Token attribution.

The 277 reverse is very close to the 276 reverse used here but is much more common. The 276 issue can be determined by looking at the bottom of the C compared to the bottom of the A in CARD. In 277 the bottom of the C is about even with the bottom of the A but in 276 it is distinctly below. With coins, this might be considered a variety. But, with tokens, it is considered a separate combination since it is obvious that a different die has been used on the reverse.

If you see one of these offered, be very careful to make sure that it is accurately identified.
This one is graded as an AU50 and has a rarity of R-6, meaning there are estimated to be between 21 and 75. It is now the rarest token I own. (There are 7 graded and I've seen one raw, which may now be one of the 7 graded.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#75 Unread post by Paul »

mhonzell wrote:I'm not sure it is the end of the roll. A close-up shows it to be fairly squared off.
so no one gets 'clip-fused', m's coin is a "straight" clip, NOT a 'ragged' clip
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#76 Unread post by mhonzell »

Other than the end of a roll, how would a straight clip occur?
Of course, you also have to remember, these tokens were not being produced at the mint. The process we think of today was not the process then, especially by these localized shops.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#77 Unread post by Paul »

i don't know the exact token/medal 'blank' making process from them.....i never had the need to 'study it',

:dunno sorry :dunno
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#78 Unread post by mhonzell »

Found some information:

It is thought by most that a straight clip occurs by reaching the end of the roll and the circular punch overlaps this edge. This is a possibility, but... the actual end edge of the roll will show layering as a result of the process of rolling the metal to achieve the desired thickness. Any coin made from the edge will have the following appearance:
StraightClip-Edge.jpg
Instead, most straight clips are a result of the roll slipping backwards slightly as it settles after passing under the cutter creating a shorter piece of flat stock to be punched. Again, the circular punch overlaps this edge and creates the straight clip. This 'sheared' edge has a completely different appearance than the one above:
ShearedClip-Edge.jpg
Based on this, my straight clipped token would be the later type.
Again, a true clipped edge should exhibit the Blakesly effect. For a straight clip, this effect should be an even larger area of the rim on the opposite side from the clip. The tapering of the clipped edge may simply be a lack of metal flowing into the unfilled area during the strike. The rim should show tapering at the edge near the clip due to this metal flow. See the above two photos. (Very difficult to counterfeit.)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#79 Unread post by Daniel »

Back then they used shears to cut the metal stock and sometimes planchets got punch-cut with these edges cut with shears. So a ragged edge clip is different then than it is now.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#80 Unread post by Paul »

LC EXAMPLE
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#81 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-127/248a
After a battle of skirmish during the Civil War it was someone’s job to report the casualties, and if there were no casualties a post would read O.K. (or zero casualties).

Finding Lincoln's in good shape and affordable can be difficult.
13 stars on the front, 13 chain links on the back.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#82 Unread post by mhonzell »

Unfortunately, you guys are going to miss a few tokens while the site is being rebuilt. So, I'll use this time to post some of the less stellar ones. You might have to go back a page, or two to see what you missed. widegrin

F-188/384a
A R-3 token with a fairly interesting design... a beehive and a few bees floating about it. The reverse has the common logo of 'Not One Cent', but the fully circling wreath is uncommon. This one got a grade of AU details due to the scratches on the front around the '18' in the date. The reverse is also rotated about 45 degrees from normal.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#83 Unread post by Daniel »

We wont lose a thing, all this is mostly cosmetic changes with some new features and some I can't use anymore with this newer software edition. It was 3.0.13 but now it's 3.1.5 and most features have not been developed for this latest version.

We even have a notifications button that let's you know when there's a response, so it's just a matter of getting used to the changes and learning where some are.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#84 Unread post by mhonzell »

I wasn't worried about losing anything.
We just currently don't have that sidebar indicating most recent changes to make it easy finding new posts. I'm having to remember how to see the new posts. :-)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#85 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

[quote="mhonzell"]I wasn't worried about losing anything.
We just currently don't have that sidebar indicating most recent changes to make it easy finding new posts. I'm having to remember how to see the new posts. :-)[/quote]

That side bar was very helpful for old "stiff" minds to follow what topics are being discussed! And which ones we may have missed. :confused:

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#86 Unread post by Paul »

[quote="mhonzell"]Unfortunately, you guys are going to miss a few tokens while the site is being rebuilt. So, I'll use this time to post some of the less stellar ones. You might have to go back a page, or two to see what you missed. widegrin

F-188/384a
A R-3 token with a fairly interesting design... a beehive and a few bees floating about it. The reverse has the common logo of 'Not One Cent', but the fully circling wreath is uncommon. This one got a grade of AU details due to the scratches on the front around the '18' in the date. The reverse is also rotated about 45 degrees from normal.[/quote]

m,
for the 'honey' industry...?
what's the CD,..II(?)....under the left bottom of the hive plz ??
kinda big for a D.I.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#87 Unread post by mhonzell »

The CDH are the initials of the sinker.
Charles D. Horter
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#88 Unread post by mhonzell »

These die sinkers did not just make tokens in their shops and sell them to merchants. They occasionally traveled about attending town fairs or world exhibitions with their hand-held presses making numismatic strikes for locals. Frequently these involved stamping over existing coins: an Indian Head Cent, a dime, sometimes over other tokens. But, willing to pay an extra cent, or two, and seeking their own personally made token, these collectors would bring a small round slug of metal to be made into a token. As a result, some of these tokens are one of a kind because of the metal they are stamped upon and not as well shaped as a normal token.

The most common numismatic strikes were made on thin brass planchets. The really oddball ones were made on "white metal". Sometimes, this "white metal" was pewter, tin, or a mixture of "white" metals. This "white" metal would quickly corrode by turning dark if touched. So, finding one intact is difficult if it was not stored well. Additoinally, the dies were typically a much harder iron, which made them subject to the weather while traveling. The dies developed rust spots, which then transfered to the tokens when formed.

The stamping device used on the road was originally used to make medals, seals, or buttons.
Traveling Stamp Press
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The token below was made up under these conditions for someone collecting tokens. Typical of a silvery coin, it was difficult to photograph. The dies used were F-1 and F-436. Both are assigned to Emil Sigel, who lived in New York City. The token was stamped on “white metal” (not silver) and on the obverse you can see where the rusty die made small pips on the surface. Currently, there are only three of these tokens that I have seen. Two are graded by NGC (a MS-62 and a MS-63) and one is raw (potentially, MS-64.) But, it is estimated there are between 11 and 20 still in existence making this a rarity-7 token.
F-1/436e MS-63
F-1/436e MS-63
F-1/436e MS-63
F-1/436e MS-63
I think I got a great deal on this one at $206.

The MS-62 had a very uneven surface and was selling for $395. (Not eBay.)
F-1/436e MS-62
F-1/436e MS-62
The MS-64 looked the same to me as the MS-63, it was selling for $286 (current bid: personal dealer, not eBay), and was still raw.
F-1/436e MS-64? (raw)
F-1/436e MS-64? (raw)
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#89 Unread post by Paul »

very kool m, :thumbsup:

curiosity question:
who?....what/when/where/how....you know what i'm gett'n at.....
choose.....picked/decided on....what "phrase" they put on these tokens?
like 'united country' on this one whistling2:
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#90 Unread post by mhonzell »

If you are asking specifically who, it was typically the die sinker and his view of the country. In this case, the reverse die was made by Emil Sigel.
He typically only made coins labeled "Not One Cent" since he was mostly into the merchant dealings and didn't want to be labeled a counterfeiter. But, he did make other designs. He also sold his designs, on occasion to the guy across the street, Charles D. Horter, who was a bit sloppier than Emil Sigel. So, the designs are typically attributed to the sinker.

This token could easily have been owned by Horter, who was out at a bash somewhere and a collector simply wanted a strike of his own. Horter would then have put two dies together out of his bag either by his choice or the collector's choice and made the token.

Some of the token phrases are by those who hated the war, some by those who wanted it to end no matter the cost, and others who simply wanted the country to stay together. These typically belong to the Copperheads. Another group tend to be political in nature and supported our leaders. The last group was those that just copied local phrases, or phrases that already existed on coins and tokens.
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#91 Unread post by Paul »

thx m :yourock:

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#92 Unread post by Daniel »

I am working on the thanks but it's not cooperating, but it will be back.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#93 Unread post by Paul »

GET BIGGER HAMMER :mad:
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mhonzell
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#94 Unread post by mhonzell »

F-128/289b

Like the last token, this is a numismatic strike made for a collector being made of brass. Unfortunately, due to the elections that were going on, this token became a presidential campaign token and got passed around much like our modern day campaign signs. "A vote for Lincoln." So, it is a little bit more circulated than the others at AU58. (Also, I quickly shot these photos on my way to work this morning. So, they didn't get the normal experimentation to find the "best" shot.)

Although Lincoln won both elections he participated in, he was not well liked while he was alive. In his first election, he only garnered about 40% of the popular vote, but it was a four way race, and that 40% was enough to get enough electoral votes to win.
Additionally, the newspapers where much harsher in those days! Slander was a meaningless word and the papers would print just about anything about someone they didn't like.

For example:
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#95 Unread post by Paul »

PALH1 wrote:thx m :yourock:

"where is the 'thanks 4 post' button"?

THX BUTTON
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#96 Unread post by mhonzell »

Nice button!

One more before I head off to Tennessee.
Not in the best of shape, but interesting due to the reverse motto.

"No North, No South, No East, No West" was originally written by a Confederate soldier serving the 3rd Infantry in Tennessee. A man known as Sam Watkins.
The phrase became popular in some areas of the North. But, I can't figure out if this is a Union or Confederate token.

The obverse has 13 stars surrounding the flag, but 16 stars on the flag (not really visible.)
And, the back also states, One Country.

Probably a Copperhead token.

F-216/293a
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#97 Unread post by Daniel »

We have our thanks button back, it's the last button in the upper right corner of each post.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#98 Unread post by mhonzell »

Towards the end of the Civil War Token reign, some people started making their own tokens out of cheap metal (pewter) and even hard rubber. The merchants were not all happy to see these white or rubber tokens. So, they came up with today's token offering the buyer a 20 percent discount if they paid with copper.

I really love the sailing ship on the obverse. One of my favorite devices to find on coins and tokens.

F-259/445
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Re: Civil War Tokens

#99 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

The engraver got a real nice effect with the billowing sails.

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Re: Civil War Tokens

#100 Unread post by mhonzell »

Yep, love the sails.

Kind of wonder what he was thinking when he made the stars... notice the faint, smaller fourth star on the right, and the lower star on the left has a smaller double poking out above it.
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