Care to speculate?

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kcm
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Care to speculate?

#1 Unread post by kcm » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:18 am

Should this coin’s guts present this way or is something hokey?

MY OWNALL-BUT-BASELESS SPECULATION: To fashion a love token, someone polished away the reverse of what s/he believed to be an 1873 Indian head cent. S/he etched his/her polished surface roughly. Turning it over, s/he began gouging out the innards of the piece. I observe that s/he gouged very meticulously in the vicinity of the date, possibly his/her lover’s date of birth. If we assume he’d set his sights on an eighteen-year-old female, this would fix the relic’s creation to somewhere during or after 1891.

I speculate that his discovery that the was a lamination of two metal vexed him, though not enough to frustrate him. The love piece’s core was, after all slated to be scraped out and discarded. I speculate that what damned the relic to its unfinished fate were the chips we see flaked off his too thin etched reverse. Does any other out there have a better idea? One thing I’d love to know is: does this gutted relic share any commonality with other 1873 Indians at its core?

Kevin
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Re: Care to speculate?

#2 Unread post by Paul » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:35 am

K,
My gotcoins: here:
This is definitely a love token on the reverse, but it appears that, the obverse of the coin is covered in what looks like solder (using these pictures for an explanation) … As if it were pasted/attached to something for a presentation, and later, it appears as if someone was trying to remove the excess solder.
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kcm
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Re: Care to speculate?

#3 Unread post by kcm » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:14 pm

Fascinating, fun attempt, dear friend. However, your attempt fails miserably. Yours is a forgivable, yet impossible dismissal. Forgivable because two dimensional images suck in conveying critical data.

I await results of my last sending to you (still in transit according to USPS). I'm preparing my next. I'll now consider sticking this relic in that next. I'll get a better answer from you when I do that. I hope the community here might risk some answers.

I can predict that you will agree -- after seeing the relic --that their worst explanation (if any arrive) risess miles above that you advance. That's a reflection of the foibles in computer screen light, not of your expertise nor my admiration of same.

In the meanwhile, the impossibility I cite lies in the fact my final image shows a picked scab revealing a lower polished surface. Solder (soft lead and tin) could be involved if, and only if, a polished solder 1873 planchet was first plated with copper/bronze and then survived a coin press. Forgive my doubt, dear Paul, but thank you for the fun of this discussion and bear in mind I, not you, have held and seen the relic.

Kevin

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Re: Care to speculate?

#4 Unread post by Paul » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:06 pm

K,
I took a long look at your pictures very closely, again.....
I have to stand by my 1st response,....... I look forward to having this in hand with your next shipment....
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Re: Care to speculate?

#5 Unread post by Daniel » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:59 am

You're thinking way too hard and like I said just ask a question, speculating when you don't know the minting process and needing your coins to be something special is just a road that leads to your frustration and anger.
The coin has been damaged post mint, this cannot happen at the mint and doesn't happen at the mint.

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Re: Care to speculate?

#6 Unread post by kcm » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:45 am

Dear Moderator Daniel,

I’m new. Is this kind of abuse to be expected on your listserve? Will it be on-going from the moderator? I speculated that someone polished the reverse details of this coin out of existence and then rough-sketched an initial into the finished surface. I speculated that the person began carefully gouging out the obverse, stopping when his carefully worked reverse showed irreparable damage. I speculated that the operations probably took place at least eighteen years after the coin left the mint.

Still you admonish: “The coin has been damaged post mint, this cannot happen at the mint and doesn't happen at the mint.”

You further admonish: “speculating when you don't know the minting process and needing your coins to be something special is just a road that leads to your frustration and anger.”

My coins will never lead me to frustration and anger. A few more brazen admonishments may, however.

You’re hardly poised to weigh my knowledge of the minting process and history. Actually I know a great deal -- in consequence (Ironically) of following leads in your videos over the past three years. I gravitate to the coin hobby video and shun the coin business ones, so admonishment on that score might be in order.

On this topic, in addition to a few insults, I’ve thus far gleaned a little expert confirmation that it is indeed a love token – a common relic from that era, no longer a coin. I like knowing that. I intend to study its prior life as a coin. Damage reveals this to be a clad coin. I intend to one day learn: is it a nineteenth century mint test piece. Ought I to look for undamaged examples among my other Indians? Should I restrict my searches to specific dates? Will my scale offer clues? Or is it counterfeit, meaning I should spend time elsewhere in my collection. Paul is willing to afford that guidance without stopping to insult me. I sent him my nickel; I’ll send him this. He’ll set me straight in mannerly fashion.

Kevin

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