marius coin with serrated edge?

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RomanGreekCoins
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marius coin with serrated edge?

#1 Unread post by RomanGreekCoins » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:36 pm

why do roman coins have serrated edges?


is this tooling ? a sign that its not authentic?
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PetesPockets55
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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#2 Unread post by PetesPockets55 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:33 am

If it is authentic, it could be a way for the merchant to file/"clip" off some of the silver.
A way of increasing his profit, but cheating the customer or next merchant.

(I believe that is part of the reason you see merchants/bankers/assayers marks on coins in later centuries, a system to verify/authenticate the purity or weight of a coin.)

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#3 Unread post by mhonzell » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:00 pm

There are two major periods when serrated edges were used on ancient coins:
Seleucid and Roman Republic
Seleucid coins are thought to be decorative.
Roman Republic coins are thought to be an anti-counterfeit measure. Remember the plated legion coin?
Serration exposes the inner base metal.

The flans were serrated prior to striking.
Last edited by mhonzell on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#4 Unread post by RomanGreekCoins » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:19 pm

I see . Do you think it appears to be authentic serrated edges to prevent counterfeiting?

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#5 Unread post by mhonzell » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:17 am

What do you see that makes you question the authenticity?

You are not providing the information needed for authenticity:
Known examples:
1. Coin weight... should be ~3.92g
2. Coin diameter... should be ~19mm

Pedigree:
3. Where did the coin come from?
... Did the seller find the coin, or buy it from someone else?
4. Who sold you the coin?
5. Is this the condition the coin was sold to you, or did you clean it?

I don't have a problem with the serration. What I initially questioned was the Roman number on the coin... CXXXVIIII (139) It should be written as CXXXIX. But, this was not standardized in 81 BC and the Greek coin makers didn't really understand the numbering system. So, is this a possible combination? Yes

Should S C (Senatus Consulto) be on a coin from 81 BC? That was usually an indicator that the senate had approved debasing the coin, which didn't start until around 30 AD, and was found on bronze coins. (You see, I tend to deal with coins from the Roman Imperial period.) Come to find out that this is okay as this meant that the senate decreed the issuance of this coin and is also found on most Roman Republic coins after 112 BC.

You also asked if this is "tooling"? Yes, but probably not in the sense you are stating the question.
The flan was tooled, by hand, before the coin was struck to create the serration.
The coin was tooled, by hand, after it was recently found to clean the coin. See video. (This is not the recommended method. It is just showing the various tools used to change the surface.)

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#6 Unread post by PetesPockets55 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:09 am

Really helpful info Mark.
Thanks.

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#7 Unread post by RomanGreekCoins » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:07 am

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Republic-Roman ... 1438.l2649

i found this on ebay. no weight or size in the description

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#8 Unread post by PALH1 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:14 am

mhonzell wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:00 pm
There are two major periods when serrated edges were used on ancient coins:
Seleucid and Roman Republic
Seleucid coins are thought to be decorative.
Roman Republic coins are thought to be an anti-counterfeit measure. Remember the plated legion coin?
Serration exposes the inner base metal.

The flanks were serrated prior to striking.
:thumbsup: :trophy:

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#9 Unread post by mhonzell » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:36 pm

RomanGreekCoins wrote:i found this on ebay. no weight or size in the description
You misunderstand. You are asking me to authenticate a coin without the information required to authenticate the coin.

As to the listing:
Note in the listing that he provides information on whom he purchased the coin from and a very descriptive listing on coin details. Harlan Berk is a reputable auction house that guarantees their ancient coins and artifacts. That said, I checked Harlan Berk's sold files and did not find this coin.

Because he sells many odds and ends, I suspect this detail is simply copied from the original sale of the coin.
I think he's a little high on the price, but he is accepting offers. And, keep in mind, the HB guarantee does not apply to future sales.

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Re: marius coin with serrated edge?

#10 Unread post by RomanGreekCoins » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:50 pm

thanks mhonzell

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