Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

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Making Cents
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Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#1 Unread post by Making Cents »

I've seen some rough edged planchets before, just not one that goes all the way around the coin like this.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#2 Unread post by Paul »

hugeeyes ... Reverse image please ?
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#3 Unread post by Making Cents »

Here is the reverse, went ahead and put both photos together.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#4 Unread post by pahwa »

No, it is not a bad planchet. This is post mint damage. You can tell that because the damage is on top of the devices. If it was a bad planchet, the devices would be struck on top of the bad areas. That area where the damage is is common and is caused by the coin roller. But this is by far the worse damage I have ever seen. It is when the paper rolls are crimped I believe. This coin must have been a roll ender at some point in its life.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#5 Unread post by Making Cents »

I've seen lots of roll machine damage and it would be more towards the center if a rolling machine did it.
Never seen a rolling machine damage so close to the edge like this.

I do agree with you, again just never seen it so close to the rim, which is why I asked.

thank you for your time.

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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#6 Unread post by pahwa »

It seems that the never rolling machines are causing the damage further out at least from what I have seen. That area is where the crimp is made. Maybe they redesigned the machine, I like you remember the damage from the rolling and crimping being in a bit more. It is possible something got hung up in the machine as it was crimping.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#7 Unread post by Daniel »

Interesting. I have never seen a coin look like this. I see split plating but this does look like design devouring die deterioration but to me that's a keeper example. I don't believe this is post mint either but possible that some of it is. Image is just not clear enough to be sure.

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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#8 Unread post by Daniel »

Can you post better image of the obverse?

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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#9 Unread post by Paul »

Interesting ......
I would like to see some better, closer, clearer images myself .....

JMO .... I do not see this as a coin crimping issue
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#10 Unread post by Making Cents »

Here are pictures getting closer and closer.

It seems weird to me that you only see the zinc where the letters are stamped but not where there are no letters. If a machine did this I think you would see the zinc core all the way around the coin as the copper coat would be scraped away.

Again I have no clue what to think about this. Think I will keep it regardless.

Thank-you again for the forum and your time.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#11 Unread post by Daniel »

This is post mint damage, I can see smashed metal and flattened features where someone used pressure to rum along inside the rim. Something hard and blunt. Thanks for the extra images.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#12 Unread post by Paul »

After taking a very close hugeeyes at your new images posted here .....
...... the only thing that I can think of, is this could quite possibly be "Bezel Damage", as if the bezel was 'spun' after it was installed.

That's my best guess, using Internet images for attribution........
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#13 Unread post by pahwa »

Better close-ups, thanks. I am most certainly not going to argue with Paul and Daniel about the cause of these marks. But I will say I feel pretty confident that these rings are post mint damage. Bezel damage never crossed my mind. To make these marks something has to be turning with some pressure and a little speed while the other has to be held in place. A mini lathe in other words. lol There is really no reason to spin a bezel that I know of or a penny in a bezel. I am still leaning toward rolling machine damage just due to the fact that is the only thing that I can think of that would have a function that could cause rotational damage like that.

Now there is planchet damage, pre-mint. There is a line that runs from the I in the word IN on the obverse SE just behind the neck and continues off the coin west of the date. That is probably some contamination in the planchet sheet during manufacturing.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#14 Unread post by Jsul77798 »

So with todays video, is the PMD id being reconsidered? Or just tryin to work out what method of PMD?
And as for the ridge rings seen on worn die zinc cents, are those EVER seen in multiples in a way mimicing this somewhat? Any way is def somethin different.....

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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#15 Unread post by Daniel »

It's PMD. You don't always know how but I am not in doubt on this coin being damaged.

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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#16 Unread post by DSCoins »

I have seen this before. A gentleman I knew showed me how he made magician coins. He did Half dollars, Quarters, Dime and pennies on a small lathe. The lines on this penny look just like the ones when he first started on the coin. After he had done a lot of lines (like on this coin), all the way to the center. He would then go back out to the edge and make the lines a little deeper and wider until he could get the two coins to mate without it being detected (except under magnification). I always thought it was a waste of good coins, but people bought them.

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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#17 Unread post by pahwa »

DSCoins wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:00 pm I have seen this before. A gentleman I knew showed me how he made magician coins. He did Half dollars, Quarters, Dime and pennies on a small lathe. The lines on this penny look just like the ones when he first started on the coin. After he had done a lot of lines (like on this coin), all the way to the center. He would then go back out to the edge and make the lines a little deeper and wider until he could get the two coins to mate without it being detected (except under magnification). I always thought it was a waste of good coins, but people bought them.

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I found one and have it around here someplace, this is a penny. I first thought it was a rotated reverse until someone noticed a very fine line by the rim. A cool coin. If I find it I'll post a pic of it if you are interested.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#18 Unread post by Earle42 »

063285.jpg (JPEG Image, 1100 × 1100 pixels) - Scaled (89)(1).jpg
Looks like someone took one of those cylindrical diamond dust covered drill bits (for cutting glass) put it on the penny and twirled it by hand a few times? These come in many sizes.
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Re: Is this a bad planchet or something else ??

#19 Unread post by Jsul77798 »

Daniel wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:37 am It's PMD. You don't always know how but I am not in doubt on this coin being damaged.
Cool, I was just askin cuz I saw the video after you said PMD here.....Interesting case though!!!!
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