Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

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budung
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Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#1 Unread post by budung » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:56 pm

Hi everyone. I have two sets of 1971 Proof Set. One set, which I will call Set 1 as compared to the other set (Set2). Set 1 seems to have a medium strike and does not have the same reverse as set 2. I did a little research and I came accross the website of Mr Jose Gallego where he is suggesting pick up points for attribution. There are still many differences between the 2 sets but I am only limited to post 10 photos. Your feedbacks and comment will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Here are some photos.
Attachments
Washington 71 OBV Set 1.JPG
Obverse of Set 1
Washington 71 OBV Set 1.JPG (76.1 KiB) Viewed 267 times
Washington 71 OBV Set 2.JPG
Obverse of Set 2
Washington 71 REV Set 1.JPG
Reverse Set 1
Washington 71 REV Set 1.JPG (82.93 KiB) Viewed 267 times
Washington 71 REV Set 2.JPG
Reverse Set 2
Washington 71 REV Set 2.JPG (86.57 KiB) Viewed 267 times
RDV Arrow Tip Set 1.JPG
Arrow Tip Set 1
RDV Arrow Tip Set 2.JPG
Arrow Tip Set 2
RDV Tail Set 1.JPG
Leaves and Tail Set 1
RDV Tail Set 2.JPG
Leaves and Tail Set 2
RDV Leaf Right Wing Set 1.JPG
Leaves on right wing Set 1
RDV Leaf Right Wing Set 2.JPG
Leaves on right wing Set 2



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PALH1
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#2 Unread post by PALH1 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:50 am


.... can you give a "description" of what your seeing as 'the differences' in your comparison images plz.
whistling2:

budung
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#3 Unread post by budung » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:32 am

Hi PALH1. Firstly in my limited knowledge of photography Imade sure that both coin were taken under the same condition such as distance, lighting, exposure, angles to get the best results, etc. I found it difficult to take good photos specially since the coins are i na holder. IMO Set 1 has a weaker strike in both the obv and rev. Set 1 has a bigger ribbon on his ponytail. Outline of the hair is weaker in Set 1. The receding hairlines are different. The rev of set 1 is weaker if we look at the outline of the primary and secondary wings. The weak tips of the leaves on the left and right wing. The small leaf on the right wing is shorter. Tail of Set 1 looks flatter vs Set 2 which is much bolder and more pronounced. This are off course MO and I might be biased. BTW both coins are SF minted.

budung
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#4 Unread post by budung » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:44 am

Also, the point of the arrow tip in Set 1 is sort of leaning towards the left. Arrow tips of Set 2 are sharper and the separation of the tips from one another are more stronger.

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PALH1
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#5 Unread post by PALH1 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:02 pm


... i think you might be searching too hard for some sort of anomaly ... ?
i DO NOT hugeeyes any "SIGNIFICANT" differences in your image comparisons ... JMO

:eureka:
keep in mind that die pairs will degrade/breakdown as the 'run' of hits with them progresses. this is true for all dies, & the 'details' of the "devices" will not show the 'crispness' of an EARLY DIE STATE (EDS) coin strike in the later stages of that particular die pairing.


:eureka:
..... which leads to "grading"..... & is a complete different animal.

budung
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#6 Unread post by budung » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:19 pm

I fully agree with you PAHL1. However, if the differences are due to die deterioration how come they are only affecting the pickup points. I dont know it only MO. Here is a photo of some letters from the legend. All letters in the legend are as crisp as this.
Attachments
RDV ES.JPG
RDV Separated ES

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Daniel
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#7 Unread post by Daniel » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:44 pm

PUPS or pick up points are only die markers to ID varieties or die pairs. What your pointing to are not pick up points but design elements that have slowly "degraded" do to die wear and would be later in the "run" than the other that has sharper details.

This doesn't designate or imply a variety but rather the die state and stage of the die pairs that struck these coins.

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PALH1
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#8 Unread post by PALH1 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:33 pm

... did daniels explanation make more sense ??
whistling2:

budung
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Re: Need Help to Attribute 1971 Washington Proof

#9 Unread post by budung » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:28 pm

Thank you guys. I requested for opinions and feedbacks and I got them. Well I may be stubborn but I am sensible. All your responses make sense, appreciated, informative and :agree:

budung

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