1890 Indian Head image for grading

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, POST IT HERE. Numismatic related posts only.

Moderator: Daniel

Forum rules
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.

1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.

2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.

3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.

4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.

5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.

6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.

7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
Post Reply
Message
Author
tab1962
Coin Collector
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:36 pm

1890 Indian Head image for grading

#1 Unread post by tab1962 »

Hello Folks,

I've upload a photo of an 1890 Indian Head Cent for your thoughts- is this an MS-63 or 64 plus is the color red, red/brown?

The seller is asking $225 for this coin.

Thanks

Tom
Attachments
1890 Indian Head Cent.jpg

User avatar
2centsal
Forum Supporter
Forum Supporter
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:27 pm
Location: Connecticut
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#2 Unread post by 2centsal »

Hey Tom, I would rather see you find a Coin that's already graded before "forking over " that kind of Cash . In my Coin World Magazine it lists an 1890 MS63RB at $80 , MS64 RB at $250 , MS64R at $ 600 and MS65RB at only $500 ( strange, huh ?) . Since there is such a jump from a MS63 RB to just a MS64 RB, I would pass on this one. The Values are based on Coins that are already Graded, Fair Market Value which consists of what other Coins in these grades have sold for in the past
The Key here is that it's a " Raw " Coin and with out being graded, your taking a big risk . This is just my opinion but I feel is a good one . Even if it was a MS64RB , there would be no room to say you got a Deal because you still have to spend the Money to have it Graded and what if it comes back a MS63RB ? Even if it does grade a MS64 , what if it doesn't have RB attached to the grade ? Then you just lost out . Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $100 . My motto is " buy cheap and you can't go wrong ".
I hope this helps. Also, there are more IH's out there, just be patient and shop around . Heritage Auctions is a good site to compare it to and all of them I've seen are Graded . You just have to register to see the prices paid, no big deal, well worth it .

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 26236
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 1123 times
Been thanked: 4093 times
Contact:

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#3 Unread post by Daniel »

I wouldn't buy a raw Indian Head for book value or in the hope it attains a grade unless I could examine the coin in-hand and with my magnifier.

tab1962
Coin Collector
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#4 Unread post by tab1962 »

Thank you all for the great tips. I will follow your suggestions...

Tom

tab1962
Coin Collector
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#5 Unread post by tab1962 »

Just found out that I have been taken to the cleaners on this 1890 penny. A professional coin dealer, near my house, looked over the coin over and feels it has been 'chemically' cleaned to enhance it. Also some of the other coins that I was told to be MS-63/64 will not even be graded at MS condition, by PCGS, due to be scratch marks from a cleaning rag. The local dealer told me to always buy a PCGS graded coin on MS-60 or higher. He told me that I will not pay too much extra, if even any, for the PCGS graded coin over a raw coin. Big and expensive lesson learned by me...

PetesPockets55
Forum Supporter
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:08 pm
Has thanked: 236 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#6 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

tab1962 wrote:Just found out that I have been taken to the cleaners on this 1890 penny. A professional coin dealer, near my house, looked over the coin over and feels it has been 'chemically' cleaned to enhance it. Also some of the other coins that I was told to be MS-63/64 will not even be graded at MS condition, by PCGS, due to be scratch marks from a cleaning rag. The local dealer told me to always buy a PCGS graded coin on MS-60 or higher. He told me that I will not pay too much extra, if even any, for the PCGS graded coin over a raw coin. Big and expensive lesson learned by me...
Ouch.

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18841
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 897 times
Been thanked: 3274 times

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#7 Unread post by Paul »

tab1962 wrote:Just found out that I have been taken to the cleaners on this 1890 penny. A professional coin dealer, near my house, looked over the coin over and feels it has been 'chemically' cleaned to enhance it. Also some of the other coins that I was told to be MS-63/64 will not even be graded at MS condition, by PCGS, due to be scratch marks from a cleaning rag. The local dealer told me to always buy a PCGS graded coin on MS-60 or higher. He told me that I will not pay too much extra, if even any, for the PCGS graded coin over a raw coin. Big and expensive lesson learned by me...
may i ask if you purchased this coin "without" a return policy??
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18841
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 897 times
Been thanked: 3274 times

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#8 Unread post by Paul »

hugeeyes this post:

TREATED COIN POST
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

tab1962
Coin Collector
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#9 Unread post by tab1962 »

Yes, I got this via the mail with no return policy! I got taken to the cleaners!

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18841
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 897 times
Been thanked: 3274 times

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#10 Unread post by Paul »

tab1962 wrote:Yes, I got this via the mail with no return policy! I got taken to the cleaners!

mmmmmm......sorry to hear that, lesson learned? i do not even buy "slabbed & graded" coins without a 'return ploicy'. for returns, the most i'm out is less than $10..... on shipping fees, so on. you'll get the hang of it...keep in mind, this is why most of these are sold "on-line" with only a picture, & no real 'description'....as 95% of john q. public dosen't know anyway. "reading" internet images is a true art form that takes practice.
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

tab1962
Coin Collector
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#11 Unread post by tab1962 »

I will go to the local coin dealer store near my house and inspect the coin first along with the PCGS cert. No more mail orders...

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18841
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 897 times
Been thanked: 3274 times

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#12 Unread post by Paul »

tab...,
buying 'on-line' & 'through the mail' is o.k., you just have to learn how to "read" images, understand how sellers 'photo-shop' a coins condition, & learn/see how images are 'colorized'. note the 'background color' used in the listings....."red" lets you do just about anything to a coin!....i mean "a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g"! ... changing the light source 'position' just a scootch, or photo 'angle' just a touch, can/will hide almost any "detraction". of course the 'picture' you see, will be the 'best possible' one,.....with the exception of the crappy coins that have 'intentionaly bad' images....small, out of focus, hazy, monochrome, heavy-heavy colorized, hugh hue,....so on, to 'hide' what they don't want you to see. of course, having the equipment i do, & imaging coins for so long now, it gives me a big advantage here.

here is a example of a "graded coin" with bad post mint damage...the head is badly "scuffed", & there is a "gouge" on the back of the head. you will see sellers provide just a 'full slab' image, with no clear, accurate, larger, 'full coin' image....for this reason:
Attachments
45S 66RB 0090 - Copy.jpg
45S 66RB 0092 - Copy.jpg
45S 66RB 0091 - Copy.jpg
45S 66RB 0095 - Copy.jpg
45S 66RB 0098 - Copy.jpg
MS66 DAMAGED.JPG
MS66 DAMAGED.JPG (42.67 KiB) Viewed 1494 times
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2734
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: 1890 Indian Head image for grading

#13 Unread post by mhonzell »

tab1962 wrote:I will go to the local coin dealer store near my house and inspect the coin first along with the PCGS cert. No more mail orders...

Local inspection is always best, but seldom will it find the coins you may be looking for. We've all been burned at this. You just have to learn to "read" the pictures, or ask for more! Don't be concerned about ruffling feathers... there are just too many scams out there. Always ensure there is a return policy! Once you find a good dealer, let them know why you like them and treasure them. If the coin is going to cost you a lot, it should be slabbed, unless you have a good return policy and the equipment to inspect it. Slabbed only means the coin is genuine... nothing else. Paul's example is great! It is slabbed, has environmental damage and a gouge, yet earned a MS66.

When you start photographing your coins... it'll happen... you'll find how much you can manipulate the photos, which helps you recognize false coloring, blurred areas, etc.

I congratulate you for stepping out and desiring a quality Indian Head Cent! One of my favorite coins! But, when buying raw, it is best to have:
1. Experience looking at the local dealers coins for the type of coin you want.
2. Large, clear photos of the coin.
3. A simple digi-cam microscope ($25) to learn some photography of coins.
4. Books!!! If you don't have the books, then ask the local dealer to show you coin characteristics in his books that you think are questionable. (ie. Is it a Closed 3 or an Open 3) Any good dealer will be happy to show you.

Of course, I have some examples of raw coins (IHC and George) and slabbed coin (Kennedy) I use to show how photos can be "altered". Each type coin below is the same coin photo'd with a different technique. Which one do you think the seller would use to get you to buy the coin? That's not even trying to post-process the photos other than cropping and putting them together.

Last comments... If you want some help BEFORE you buy the coin, just post the seller's picture here and the guys/gals will be happy to give you their verdict! I've saved a lot of bucks not buying cleaned coins based on picture feedback.

That coin dealer that stated it was "chemically" cleaned... well, do you trust his opinion? Or, was he trying to get you to sell the coin for a loss? Get a second opinion.
Attachments
0001.jpg
0002.jpg
Toned.jpg
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post