Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

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bomber7777
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Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#1 Unread post by bomber7777 »

PIc is not greatest but this is not post strike, this has to be broadstrike error I think, I have seen some broadstrikes that look similar, looking for someone to help and tell me how rare this error is.....
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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#2 Unread post by Daniel »

Welcome to the forum!

This isn't a broad strike since a broad strike would be larger in diameter than a normal coin, since a broad strike is the result of a coin being struck without or only with part of the collar die that helps retain it's diameter during the strike.

I see the edge of the coin appears to be folded over and this shows the coin's rim was pounded. It looks like someone beginning attempt at creating a coin ring, or used as a door knocker, or it was stuck in a dryer for a while.

I know that's not the answer you wanted to hear but this coin is damaged. Nothing during the minting process would do this to a coin.

I am not sure what broad strike examples you were comparing this coin to but it sounds like ebay auctions, and most of those sellers don't know mint errors but are real good at a fast buck.

Here's some certified and authentic broad strikes to compare to http://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx ... roadstrike

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#3 Unread post by bomber7777 »

this is not a damaged coin or a ring coin, looke, the folded over part of the coin writing is on the folded over part, when this coin was struck the writing carried over on the folded over part of the coin, this coin looks exactly like the example on this forum of a broad strike with indent, look at the back of the jeff nickel they use in the example, it is the same as this coin, exactly...

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#4 Unread post by bomber7777 »

go to top of the page and click mint errors, go to broad strikes, look at the example of the 1999 nickel, the back of that nickel looks exactly the same as the front of my nickel

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#5 Unread post by bomber7777 »

I know I am being difficult, if I could get you a better pic, if you saw the writing on the coin, you could tell this coin was struck like this at the mint...

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#6 Unread post by bomber7777 »

Lot 6548 on the broadstrike error list you sent, it is called huge broadstrike error with missing lettering...............this is the same as my coin, have I hit the jackpot?

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#7 Unread post by Daniel »

It's not the same, lot 6548 is a Presidential Dollar and it's missing the edge lettering and is not the same as your coin. Your coin has a metal lip that's been folded and this is not a broad strike.

You have to look at what it can't be before you can understand what it is.

A broad strike is a coin struck by the hammer and the anvil dies (front and back) but the retaining collar did not engage the rim, so the dies forced the planchet to spread out. You coin does not display these characteristics.

Even if it was a broad strike it's not a jackpot coin, it would not be worth that much money even if it was certified. It's just not a big money error.

I am sorry to tell you this but it's the truth.

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#8 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

Daniel wrote:It's not the same, lot 6548 is a Presidential Dollar and it's missing the edge lettering and is not the same as your coin. Your coin has a metal lip that's been folded and this is not a broad strike.

You have to look at what it can't be before you can understand what it is.

A broad strike is a coin struck by the hammer and the anvil dies (front and back) but the retaining collar did not engage the rim, so the dies forced the planchet to spread out. You coin does not display these characteristics.

Even if it was a broad strike it's not a jackpot coin, it would not be worth that much money even if it was certified. It's just not a big money error.

I am sorry to tell you this but it's the truth.
:agree:

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#9 Unread post by bomber7777 »

I think this is a combination of extra metal broad strike, I know this sounds a little crazy, but this coin has writing on the rim were it appears to be folded over, in other words, the coin was struck over the folded over part of the rim, this cannot be a post strike damaged coin, it is not. If you could see the coin you would agree, so what could this possibly be then?---Where can anybody suggest I take this coin to get it looked at?---

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#10 Unread post by bomber7777 »

I know I sound crazy guys but I am not, it is frustrating because I know this coin had to be struck at the mint, the writing on the rim that is folded over matches exactly what is underneath, the folded over rim is to symmetrical to be done by hand or someone trying to make a ring, the folded over rim is a machine striking the coin, this is a Lewis and Clark 2004 Nickel if that helps, on the back of this coin the Lewis and Clark print is crooked also, but other than that, the back of the coin is fine..............

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#11 Unread post by Daniel »

I am sorry but you do not understand the minting process. I am not trying to be rude but you need to read about the minting process and get the book by Alan Herbert on mint varieties, it's called The Official Price Guide To Mint Errors, and read this cover to cover.

The dies are adjusted to perfectly strike the coin's design and the collar keeps the edges and diameter of the coin in the mint specified diameter. In no way can extra metal be smashed like this and extra metal comes from the annealing process and looks like a thin fence standing along the rim anyway. It does not look smashed or folded.

I can tell by the design that this coin was struck with normal die pressure so there's no way the hammer, anvil or the collar die can upturn the metal like this, since during the strike all three dies form a chamber the exact size of the coin, no way it can fold metal since there's no room in this little chamber.

The dies come together with tons of pressure and smash any object above the normal coin's thickness into the planchet and makes the coin and struck through material the same thickness as the coin. You're coin is not a uniform thickness.

You're arguing with decades of experience and it's obvious you haven't seen a well executed coin ring, they're more symmetrical than your coin.

As I stated before, it can't be a broadstrike in any sense of the meaning because the coin is not larger in diameter. It looks nothing like a broadstrike.

I know what you're thinking, you think your coin was a broadstrike then got struck again, but that doesn't cause this lip to form since the same problem that caused the broadstrike would not have been fixed in a split second. Those dies are pounding at an extreme rate of speed and under tons of pressure and when a coin is struck it's blown out of the chamber and another coin enters and this happens in less than a second.

You have to think real time speed here and not like the coin just set there after first strike, problem fixed, and then struck again. If that did happen then it still would not fold the metal over since there's no over-lapping of either die and the metal would be smashed into the coin without a crease.

I can see a crease along along this "folded" metal and it has dirt in it, that crevice would not be present if it was struck with dies under tons of pressure.
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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#12 Unread post by bomber7777 »

ok answer this question, how is it possible for the writing to be on the rim that matches underneath perfectly, there is no process post mint strike that can take the lettering off the coin and then put on the rim where the folded over metal is,,,,so answer how that happened?--if you can tell me how the writing is ON the folded over part of the metal (not showing thru it), I could understand and not be so persistent, I agree with you, I thought this coin was not mint myself at first glance, but I am telling you, if you saw this coin, you would have to wonder.....could this be a one in a million mint error?--just possibly?---if this is in fact a mint strike coin, it would be one of the rarest ever, correct?

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#13 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

Hey Bomber 7777.
Daniel has given you some very detailed descriptions of how the minting process works and why it is NOT a mint error. You seem convinced otherwise.
Got an experiment for you to try that might help answer your question about "How?"
Take a regular coin similar to yours and two pieces of angle iron or flat steel (the heavier the better).
Put the coin on its edge between the two metal pieces and roll the coin back and forth while you exert pressure down on it. I believe the more you roll it the more it will "wobble" and roll the edges of the coin over on itself. It might not give you an exact duplicate of your coin but it may help you visualize how it could have been done.
Another thing that might give the same effect is one of those "rolling" knife sharpeners that you put your knife blade into ("V" shaped slot for the blade) and roll it on the counter. Friction can do "wonderful" things to metal!
OR ... Google "coin shop or clubs" within your zip code that you would be able to bring it in to maybe get an answer to your doubts.
No matter what the outcome, keep posting pics and questions. We all like learning from each others posts. :thumbsup:
Last edited by PetesPockets55 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#14 Unread post by Paul »

how about more BETTER pictures?
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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

#15 Unread post by Daniel »

I don't see any lettering on the folded rim metal, but if it's incuse then another coin could have been used. If it looks like regular lettering, not mirrored or upside down, then the folded metal could be thin enough to take on the shape of the letter underneath.

If the die struck this coin a second time, after this fold, (even IF it could happen) then the lettering would be as obvious as the original strike and the folded metal would be smashed flush with, and like the rest of the coin. No way could the die strike letters on this raised and folded metal and not smash it flush and impart obvious lettering.

Please feel free to post better images, it helps to have better images.

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