Trail Dies - How & Why ??
Moderator: Daniel
Forum rules
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19097
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3323 times
Trail Dies - How & Why ??
i have looked at bunches of lincoln cent td's, & read ALOT of info on these.....but no one really gives a concrete definitive answer on how they occur on the die face.
i ask this, because......i'm now trying to work through the poundage of lincoln wheat cents that have been sitting in the closet for years. having looked at zillions of these, you find specific recognizable patterns that occur for specific years....
for example....the '44 lwc. these just seem to have a real crummy '44' date punch...on almost all of them i have ever looked at. why?? maybe the punches were just 'not so good'? maybe it's the 'design of the 4 itself' with the sharp angled north & sw points? (just not a good design element for metal to 'flow into' as the coin is struck) maybe just sloppier workmanship in '44?.
i :dunno
but....i do see, & have found several very heavy trail dies on the '44' of the 'date only' for that year, running e-w, 90 degrees toward the rim. was it the final annealing? was it....? :confused: whistling2:
i ask this, because......i'm now trying to work through the poundage of lincoln wheat cents that have been sitting in the closet for years. having looked at zillions of these, you find specific recognizable patterns that occur for specific years....
for example....the '44 lwc. these just seem to have a real crummy '44' date punch...on almost all of them i have ever looked at. why?? maybe the punches were just 'not so good'? maybe it's the 'design of the 4 itself' with the sharp angled north & sw points? (just not a good design element for metal to 'flow into' as the coin is struck) maybe just sloppier workmanship in '44?.
i :dunno
but....i do see, & have found several very heavy trail dies on the '44' of the 'date only' for that year, running e-w, 90 degrees toward the rim. was it the final annealing? was it....? :confused: whistling2:
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19097
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3323 times
- mhonzell
- Administrator
- Posts: 2734
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
- Location: Arizona
- Has thanked: 172 times
- Been thanked: 461 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
Very interesting!
The hard part is remembering that these are paths cut into the die and being transferred as ridges onto the coin.
It is as if the 'liquid' metal was trapped in the devices, expanded due to the heat created by pressure and then jetted from the weak spot in the hub. This jetting cut a tiny groove into the hub.
But, it's just another theory. widegrin
The hard part is remembering that these are paths cut into the die and being transferred as ridges onto the coin.
It is as if the 'liquid' metal was trapped in the devices, expanded due to the heat created by pressure and then jetted from the weak spot in the hub. This jetting cut a tiny groove into the hub.
But, it's just another theory. widegrin
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
Go here http://www.traildies.com/ and you can also go on LCR.com and try to contact Robert (BJ) Neff.He started the site a few years back.
- Nolifeking
- Coin Expert
- Posts: 1435
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:22 am
- Location: Wisconsin
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
Pahl I've seen a lot of what you are showing on the 1944's. A lot of them that I look at have this present. Never connected it with being a trail die or like one though.
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19097
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3323 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
YES, MINE TOO!mhonzell wrote:Very interesting!
The hard part is remembering that these are paths cut into the die and being transferred as ridges onto the coin.
It is as if the 'liquid' metal was trapped in the devices, expanded due to the heat created by pressure and then jetted from the weak spot in the hub. This jetting cut a tiny groove into the hub.
But, it's just another theory. widegrin
it would take forever for me to type it out, & most likely confuse everyone, so....
i had read & understand everything in the post link to these td's....and i know those guys know what they are talking about, but my explanation is more sound/probable. based on fluid dynamics / friction, in combination with some of their principals.
- 2centsal
- Forum Supporter
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:27 pm
- Location: Connecticut
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
I wrote about this subject awhile back . Remember that strange dime I have with the Yellowing and has the " Groove " around the Rim ? This dime also has this Trailing on the back where it says " E. PLURIBUS UNUM " . Anyone see this on a dime ? Mine actually has at least 2 trails per letter where as you examples show just one . I'll have to see if I can post a good Pic of it later . I Noticed that if you enlarge the Pic, you can kind of see the trails above the BUS .
-
- Forum Supporter
- Posts: 1863
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:08 pm
- Has thanked: 236 times
- Been thanked: 36 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
(Old thread with some updated info)
Paul,
Did you see the thread started by Will Brooks at the LincolnCentForum ? Some questions overall but finally some confirmation to Will's theory by Mike Diamond.
LINK to Will's thread.[/b]
....
http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/s ... trail+dies
Post #61 (on Page #7) has the video of some Trails being created.
Here is the video.
LINK .
Edit: Thanks Daniel for the heads up. I corrected the direct LINK info (I think!!!)
Paul,
Did you see the thread started by Will Brooks at the LincolnCentForum ? Some questions overall but finally some confirmation to Will's theory by Mike Diamond.
LINK to Will's thread.[/b]
....
http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/s ... trail+dies
Post #61 (on Page #7) has the video of some Trails being created.
Here is the video.
LINK .
Edit: Thanks Daniel for the heads up. I corrected the direct LINK info (I think!!!)
Last edited by PetesPockets55 on Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Daniel
- Administrator
- Posts: 26520
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Has thanked: 1148 times
- Been thanked: 4160 times
- Contact:
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
The links are not working, just post the entire url and you can actually post a watchable video.
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19097
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3323 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
PetesPockets55 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:58 am (Old thread with some updated info)
Paul,
Did you see the thread started by Will Brooks at the LincolnCentForum ? Some questions overall but finally some confirmation to Will's theory by Mike Diamond.
LINK to Will's thread.[/b]
....
http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/s ... trail+dies
Post #61 (on Page #7) has the video of some Trails being created.
Here is the video.
LINK .
Edit: Thanks Daniel for the heads up. I corrected their direct LINK info (I think!!!)
TY C,
very interesting read,.... it sounds like these guys are just like me ...... "I WANT ANSWERS"
the 'vid' on making them won't play for me, but i get their thought process.
- mhonzell
- Administrator
- Posts: 2734
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
- Location: Arizona
- Has thanked: 172 times
- Been thanked: 461 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
Wow!
An actual answer with proof. Not what I was rhinking it would be. Overpolishing the die, but not scratching the surface.
An actual answer with proof. Not what I was rhinking it would be. Overpolishing the die, but not scratching the surface.
-
- Forum Supporter
- Posts: 1863
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:08 pm
- Has thanked: 236 times
- Been thanked: 36 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
Did you try "Copy And Paste" of the URL page into your browser? Because all the links are taking me there.PALH1 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:38 amPetesPockets55 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:58 am (Old thread with some updated info)
Paul,
Did you see the thread started by Will Brooks at the LincolnCentForum ? Some questions overall but finally some confirmation to Will's theory by Mike Diamond.
LINK to Will's thread.[/b]
....
http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/s ... trail+dies
Post #61 (on Page #7) has the video of some Trails being created.
Here is the video.
LINK .
Edit: Thanks Daniel for the heads up. I corrected their direct LINK info (I think!!!)
TY C,
very interesting read,.... it sounds like these guys are just like me ...... "I WANT ANSWERS"
the 'vid' on making them won't play for me, but i get their thought process.
-
- Forum Supporter
- Posts: 1863
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:08 pm
- Has thanked: 236 times
- Been thanked: 36 times
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
Notice in the video the polishing device is a softer and more flexible polishing device/material that is able to flex and extend into the devices. Direction of the polishing also is a factor.
- Daniel
- Administrator
- Posts: 26520
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Has thanked: 1148 times
- Been thanked: 4160 times
- Contact:
Re: Trail Dies - How & Why ??
This is the kind of experiments and test that solves mysteries in this hobby.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 8 Replies
- 1965 Views
-
Last post by clyde
-
- 3 Replies
- 1208 Views
-
Last post by Daniel
-
- 3 Replies
- 2093 Views
-
Last post by pahwa
-
- 10 Replies
- 3735 Views
-
Last post by Paul
-
- 1 Replies
- 1054 Views
-
Last post by mhonzell
-
- 2 Replies
- 1122 Views
-
Last post by Daniel
-
- 5 Replies
- 5195 Views
-
Last post by Scubaredneck
-
- 3 Replies
- 2408 Views
-
Last post by Paul
-
- 5 Replies
- 2321 Views
-
Last post by Blake's7
-
- 8 Replies
- 69185 Views
-
Last post by Daniel