1957-D Lincoln Cent struck on wrong planchet

[blueMaverick21]

I found a 1957-D Lincoln Cent that is struck on a wrong planchet. It weighs (2.28 grams) less than a 1950's silver dime but is about full sized (diameter is 0.738 inches) as compared to a cent - comparison below. It is non-magnetic and sounds silverish in tone if dropped on a wooden table.

1957-D Lincoln Cent (copper)
Diameter – 0.749 inches
Thickness – 0.059 inches
Weight – 3.06 grams

1957-D Lincoln Cent (wrong planchet)
Diameter – 0.738 inches
Thickness – 0.048 inches
Weight – 2.28 grams

1958-D Roosevelt Dime (silver)
Diameter – 0.703 inches
Thickness – 0.049 inches
Weight – 2.48 grams

The problem is that the coin is pretty corroded (pretty blackish) but does look silver at the rim and some edges.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated - Kind regards

[SensibleSal66]

Any Pics. ? Thanks

[Earle42]

Pics needed for evaluation. It could be damage (acid). It would naturally ring lighter since it is more thin.

[blueMaverick21]

I attempted some photos, but these needed to be taken at a slight angle due to the dark coloring and losing most definition if shot straight on. There is enough detail remaining on the obverse to see the silver on the rim/edges, as well as with Lincoln's jacket. You can still see the wheat straws and the "ONE CENT" on the reverse, but these are difficult to photograph due to slightly more corrosion on the back side. The edges are definitely non-copper in coloring and not steel since there is no magnetic attraction. And, as mentioned, the sound when dropped is completely different than any copper coins from that date range. If this were to start out as copper planchet, then there would be no detail left on either side since the coin would have lost about 20% of its weight (2.28 vs. 3.06 grams) using my scale. Thanks for reviewing this post for me.

[blueMaverick21]

Possibility of this cent being a Dominican Republic - 10 Centavos - .900 Silver - .0723 ounces fine weight (about 2.25 grams gross weight) – 1.2 mm (0.047) thick – 17.9 mm (0.704) diameter - US minted between 1939-59. All matches well except the diameter for the cent at 0.738 is is slightly larger than the centavo at 0.704.

Is it worth the time and money to send something like this to PCGS for grading?

[Earle42]

The only thing I can evaluate is what the pics show. In the pictures the exposed metal looks copper and not silver. You also mention corrosion as being very bad on the REV. All I can guess from the pictures is this cent had a rough life and has a lot of post mint damage. From experience I can say that putting a coin in nitric acid will quickly make it thinner and have damaged details like yours. The acid won't turn it black like this though.

An acetone soak soak might loosen some of the dirt off of it to reveal more details.

[Daniel]

It's a damaged coin and why it weighs off.

[blueMaverick21]

Daniel - thank you kindly for your response, VBR

[Paul]

It's a damaged coin and why it weighs off.

:agree:

[blueMaverick21]

To any interested parties,
I soaked this coin in acetone overnight per recommendations and it did not remove any of the surface contamination. I then soaked it in an aluminum foil & baking soda bath for about 20 minutes and that only brought out the shine on the rim and other elevated areas such as the date, as well as Lincoln's beard and jacket - appears to more silver in person and per the photos included. I hesitate to use anything more aggressive for fear of losing what is on the obverse.
As I mentioned earlier, any copper coin weighing greater than 3 grams and losing over 20% of its weight thru corrosion, then there would be minimal detail left on the obverse which is still fairly well defined in this case; even the reverse still has remnants of the wheat straws. Looking at the coin with a jeweler's loupe the corrosion is moe of a build up and and not detracted with material loss.
I compared the tone of the coin to dozens of the lighter zinc cents from 1980 thru 2000 which would only be about 10% heavier and a number of more recent Roosevelt dimes and it does not "ring" the same as any of those.
I do not want to contest any of the expert opinions, but I am trying to decide how best to move forward with a final determination.
Respectfully

[Daniel]

It's corroded so damaged and not worth more than the copper it's made of. It's also missing enough material to effect the weight. It's time to move on, you will not find one example of a incorrect planchet that looks like this, because they don't and they can't look like this.

[blueMaverick21]

Daniel,

I am sorry to say, but you are incorrect about 1957-D Lincoln Cents ever being struck on silver planchets. Please see the included PCGS example - 1957-D 1C PCGS Mint Error MS 64 (Struck on Silver 10C Planchet) Lincoln Cent. I am unsure if this example (10C) is being described as a Roosevelt dime or as a South American centavo.

Furthermore, silver does turn black when exposed to hydrogen sulfide or acid per the below tidbit of information pulled from the Internet. The pre-1982 copper cents do not corrode black. My guess is that this cent was buried in soil or along a roadside face up and that is why the reverse is corroded more severely than the obverse.

Silver becomes black because of hydrogen sulfide (sulfur), a substance that occurs in the air. When silver comes into contact with it, a chemical reaction takes place and a black layer is formed. Silver oxidizes faster in places with a lot of light and high humidity.

I will submit the coin for confirmation and provide a followup in a few months. Now, I will move on, but thanks so much anyway for your direction with this submission.

[Daniel]

I never stated there wasn't any struck on a silver planchet. I've done multiple videos on this subject. I am telling you that YOUR coin is NOT on an incorrect planchet. You will find out after you submit your coin and waist your money that I was correct. You're not debating with an amateur that needs to learn something about chemical reactions of alloys or incorrect planchet errors.

[blueMaverick21]

I am not debating anyone’s credentials or expertise, especially not yours.

I was intending to bring this coin into a local dealer for their impressions, but now I will submit it to PCGS just as a matter of completeness since I have some free vouchers. So, we will see – stay posted. I will provide an update to the Forum either way. Then, if facts are proven otherwise, you could create a YouTube video based on this as a topic. I will have no problem admitting if I am incorrect with my conjecture, but that is doubtful.

You are really ignoring the basic principles of science; any object cannot lose 25% of its mass without a considerable reconfiguration of its entire structure. This coin’s diameter is true, and its rim edges are crisp and completely intact as is most of the obverse. If you were to sand down a copper cent on both sides to mimic this type of weight loss, then there would be hardly any detail left on either side. Approximately 60% of the coin’s mass (1.9 grams for a copper cent) is in the center or land area of the coin, so this coin, if it were copper would have need to lose 1.2 grams from the raised areas, so there would be barely any detail remaining. However, the profile and rim edges of this coin do not demonstrate material loss at all. Lincoln's profile alone must weigh about 0.8 grams, and that is completely intact. Please advise as to how this coin could have mysteriously transmutated.

A coin cannot lose 0.8 grams uniformly throughout its thickness without being exposed to dramatic and controlled conditions like a particle accelerator. Lincoln’s profile on a copper cent is raised about 0.010 of an inch from the relief or land of the coin, so assume the same for the obverse detail. A cent starts at 0.060, this coin measures 0.048 thick using a caliper, so it would need to lose 0.006 of an inch on each side of the coin if previously copper. And that did not occur with this coin as the definition of Lincoln’s profile; beard, hair, and jacket creases, are still relatively visible. Additionally, the obverse still demonstrates the wheat straws and “ONE CENT” markings but are less visible due to the build-up on that side of the coin.

I found this coin by weighing over 800 corroded cents to separate copper from zinc cents from a 15,000-coin sort (over 100 pounds collected since the early 1980’s). Most of both type planchets actually gained weight when compared to their respective populations as the corrosive materials and associated reactions were additive. Following this logic, a 10-centavo coin which starts out at 2.25 grams gross weight and was exposed to an alkaline environment would gain weight. Acidic conditions would typically cause a sacrificial elemental change and the coin would lose weight. This coin weighs in at 2.27 or 2.28 grams, depending on the tare of the scale, so it is closer to being silver in material as opposed to being copper just based on basic logic. You state in Post #11 that the coin has lost weight, please indicate where on this coin that is; I see the opposite has occurred and has filled in material at the recessed areas.

If it pings like a duck (as compared to a silver dime) and feels like a duck (as compared to a silver dime), then it is a duck. Could you please provide some photo examples of naturally occurring copper cents that have turned black – I have never seen one in over fifty years of scavenging cents. And, I am no rookie either, so do not imply otherwise.

Simply do the math on this oddity, and it only reflects one way. If there were never any 1957-D Lincoln Cents struck on silver planchets (which you never properly stated in one of your rebuttals), then I would completely agree with you, so don’t be critical of a unique find.

[Paul]

WOW

[Daniel]

Loose your money. You will see I was correct. Then you might realize all this math was wrong and you literally wasted your time on a damaged coin. It has a substance melted onto the surface. It is a fire damaged coin or someone put something on it. When you get this back as damaged then you can reflect on yourself and how you tried to use flawed science and math to deduce this was a silver planchet.