1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#31 Unread post by Daniel »

It has to weigh 3.11g or it's worth face value

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#32 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

Yours is not copper.
It is a cent minted on a copper plated zinc planchet. Notice the pitting and deterioration.
BTW- a little more details with your question is helpful and appreciated.[/size]

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#33 Unread post by RaulManzanilla »

How can I know my car is copper if don't have scale

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#34 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

The scale is the easiest and least expensive way to determine the weight. Take it to a jeweler or pawn shop that has one?

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#35 Unread post by cjs0509xl »

There is a fundamental problem with the generalization that in order for a 1983 to qualify as transitional coin, it must weigh 3.11g.
First, the U.S. mint gives every coin weight parameters, I am not a 100% certain of the number, but for the sake of promoting my theory on why 3.11g just can't be a generalization, let's assume coins before 1982 (since there were some coppers minted when the mint wabeginning the transition to a Zimc alloy) is 2.4g-2.6 g.For the sake of this explanation not accuracy, let's say the limits of a copper coin also equals .1g. and so we will have 3.01-3.22g for copper coims when they are minted.
The 1983 was minted in 1983 and is a coin made from circulation, and most have been around the block. Let's also assume this wear and tear could equal .05 g-to maybe .0175 g, so now you are looking at a lower limit for a copper coin may be 3.005 and now you are very close to having a copper coin which could weight 2.99 g.
That just does not fit with the mantra of 3.11 g. But believe me, it is hardly Ever that zinc pennies are 2.5g on the dot, nor copper pennies weighing in exactly at 3.11g
Here is what is important. You need to weigh all 1982's and 1983's but most importantly you need to understand the mint's weight allowances for each coin minted.
There is no question if a coin falls within the lower and higher limits of these allowances say if the coin weighed 3.05g, It is most definitely copper,
I wonder how many people made the assumption if a transition penny from copper to zinc din't weigh 3.11 give or take .03 g ,it just is not copper.
But here is where things get muddied. Suppose a Lincoln penny weighs in at 2.8g, well quite simply it does not conform to either the standard plus the weight variance of either a zinc or a copper penny, then what?
Well you can make an assumption, it is a very heavy zinc coin or it's a very light copper penny.
Now if it turns out to be a copper coin, youmstill have a teansitionacoin, even though it only weighs 2.8g. But if it is a heavy zinc coin, well then it's not a transitional coin but it is onma wrong planchet.
In 1981, Canada minted a penny which they discontinued in 1982, when they minted a new penny, different metals and weight.
This penny weighs 2.80g and as far as I know, 1981 was the only year a Canadian penny was minted at that weight.It's size was 19.05 mm.It was manufactured with a mixture of Copper,tin and zinc.
Guess what? U.S. pennies are 19.00 mm!
I know, I have a 1983 that weighs 2.82g..I weighed it countless times and usually weigh a wheat coin before hand which I know,will be close to 3.11g and a zinc Shield Penny which I know,will be close to 2.50g. I just happen to have had a 1981 Canadian penny and so I tried an experiment. I put the 1983 back to back with the 1981 Canadian cent and then put a shield penny on one end and a wheat on the other.I turned them on the side to check the edges and guess what the 1983 and Canadian were thicker than the shield and wheat but more remarkably, they looked like twins sandwiched in between.
A specific gravity test would quickly verify my finding.
In the end, now is my 1983 a transitional penny, yes if it is copper, it is but more importantly, it is a transitional penny because it looks like a 1983 but is not zinc, it was by a freak of nature struck on a foreign copper planchet to make it transitional.
I would pay very close attention to the mint weight allowances because if it happened to me, that is, if I found one, you can be sure there are more waiting to be discovered.

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#36 Unread post by Daniel »

Weight is just the first step in verifying a copper planchet. However, a worn copper planchet that weighs 2.8 would be noticeable in extreme wear and there would be no mistake it was copper. Zincolns do not last long enough to become slicks.

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#37 Unread post by mhonzell »

I've weighed hundreds of cents and unfortunately, they've all been within 0.01 of 3.11 if they were copper. Even the dirty ones.
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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#38 Unread post by cjs0509xl »

I agree about the wear, but do you recal, I put the 1983 next to the Canadian 1983then sandwiched both of them, on one end with a wheat penny and the opposite end, a shield cent.
Conclusion,
Neither the wheat which is copper or the zinc penny were as thick as the 1983.
And the 1983, unless I told you which penny was the 19th and which one was the 1981 Canadian cent are thicker and equal like they are the same coin.
And as far as weighing many and not finding any with weight problems, I wish you the best of luck my friend.Keep plugging,as far as pennies are concerned, there are many in circulation which will make put the transitional to rest until..
But think, they wouldn't be shelling out 18,000 for coins that are easy to find.As for me, Eventhough I judge the penny I have to Be an AU 55 . So be it , I would be ashamed to be greedy when not only is my coin copper but it was also struck on a foreign planchet . Good hunting

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#39 Unread post by mhonzell »

Just so we all know what the AU55, 1983 US Cent, minted on a 1981 Canadian copper planchet looks like:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (39.19 KiB) Viewed 8526 times

By the way...
The 1981 Canadian cent was made at 2.8g, 19.00 mm diameter, 1.45 mm thick. Oh, and it was made in 1980, as well.
The 1983 US Cent was 2.5g, 19.05 mm in diameter and 1.52 mm thick. A copper US cent would be 3.11g.

I can only guess why it weighs 2.8g.

Might want to fix your story.

PS. Coin weight tolerances are governed by US Law: (meaning the acceptable weight for the US Cent is: copper 2.98g min, zinc 2.63g max)
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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#40 Unread post by cjs0509xl »

Why are you being so defensive? I went into the whole story about what the m U.S. Mint's weight variances, in this case for pennies is.
So what's there to fix, listen carefully since we agree on the lawful weight variances for these pennies, we have already one thing to agree on.
But you concluded your opinion by saying I should fix my story?
No, there's no need to fix anything. The 1983 weighs 2.8 g. PERIOD! It looks like a 1983 cent but clearly falls out of the parameters normally set for U.S. cents by the law and quality control.
Therefore an assumption can be made that there is a problem with the planchet it was struck onto.
There have been quarter struck onto Phillipine coins and guarantee you the weight of that coin was not with what is normally the variance set forth by law.You know what, it didn't really matter 1972 quarter struck onto Phillipine 10 centimo weight 1.98g. Clad quarters weigh 5.67g.
Just because the quarter didn't fit within the parameters really didn't make any difference to anyone but the collectors who wanted it like it was a prize diamond
.looking at the quarter and not having weighed it, I would infer there was some kind of mint planchet error which can be pretty wild sometimes, but after measuring the weight and realizing it still had most of the features of a quarter, it had to have been struck onto a foreign planchet to account for the weight variance which did not satisy the one set forth by the U.S. for minting any coin.
Then there is the 1970-S quarter struck onto a Canadian planchet which weighs 5.83 gm and has a 23.62 mm.and the American clad quarter weighing m in at
5.67 g and having a diameter of 24.26 mm.with a variance of .19g, so in this case fits within the acceptable weight variances allowed.
But I it doesn't change the fact, it's not on an American planchet, not only that, 1941 Canadian quarters we're struck onto silver planchets.
Not the mint,in fact there's a name for it Canadian assisted planchet errors.
And here is the important fact about my 2.80 g 1983 cent, the 1981 CANADIAN PENNY WAS 98% COPPER, 1.5% TIN AND .05g zinc.
And by the way if that picture of a 1983 you posted was an AU anything, the 1983 penny I have must be at least MS-62.

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#41 Unread post by cjs0509xl »

You will be hearing about it, guarantee you that!I,will post it once NGC grades it and assigns the only penny like it in the world a very special label ,oh about 2 1/2 weeks from now.

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#42 Unread post by Daniel »

Good information Mark. Has the 83' on 81' Canadian Cent stock been verified as such?

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#43 Unread post by cjs0509xl »

No,I am willing to keep America great by grabbing my heritage as a pioneer , Daniel.
But I can answer the question of how to verify if it is in fact 1983 1981. If someone made you close your eyes the turned them on their rims back to back, I don't think you could 100% identify the Canadian.They equally thick and round.
Even though the U.S version is 19 mm and the canadin is 19.05 mm, the only way that .05 mm could be attested to is with calipers not by eyeballing.
Now if you add either a 19mm shield or wheat penny and put it on either end, Ray Charles could seethe wheat or the shield as absolutely thinner than 1981 or 1983.
But to be 100% sure since our pennies which are copper 90% zinc 10%.
1981 needs a specific gravity because such a test will verify, it is Canadian 98%copper1.5% tin and .05 zinc.
Once that is done, do the 1983 and if its specific gravity is the same, it can't be an American planchet
It will have to be said it is a Canadian assisted planchet error
And since 1983 was a transitional year by virtue it will be a 98% copper coin it will also be a transitional error and then, it will no linger be pioneering.
It will just be another fascinating thing that can happenduring the minting process to coins, either naturally or man made.
So unless someone else verifiesthry are in possessionof a new discovery. I will have only one
Let the feeding frenzy begin.

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#44 Unread post by cjs0509xl »

Yes if you have a 1983d penny 3.11g you have transitional penny;it should weigh 2.5 g because its zinc.But let me re emphasize, whether or not a penny is found to weigh 3.11g from 1983 and beyond, it is still transitional if it weighs 3.11g
And I think they have found pennies weighing 3.11 in 1989,1990 and even somewhere around 1997.
I think its impossible to have copper planchets left over past 1983 and they are assisted by mint personal who throw in a few copper planchets but don't always retrieve them all.
Mints are extremely high security but people still manipulate the planchets or cause other errors with intention of stealing them.We can thank security that must have a perilous time trying to retrieve them.
But washington on the reverse of a Sacajawea dollar is highly unlikely but what about a proof 1970s quarter being struck onto a 1941 canadian quarter.
Impossible.
Make sure you weigh some wheats that you know for sure are 3.11g and the weigh a couple agield pennies which should weigh close to 2.5 g.
Re weigh your 1983d and bingo if its 3.11 g.
I think there have not been many 1983d's found, so yeah you probably will enjoy Christmas! Congratulations

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#45 Unread post by Paul »

I'd like to hugeeyes the "ASSAY REPORT" here ??
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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#46 Unread post by saveenshrestha »

I just found a one 1983 D penny which weighs 2.49g
You think this is the one?? lol:
15538029222104452538984600339236.jpg
15538029581096585949208710695246.jpg

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#47 Unread post by Paul »

:welcome:
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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#48 Unread post by Daniel »

It must weigh 3.0 grams or better so this isn't the one.

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Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#49 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

Welcome and that 1983d is a normal cent.

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