1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

Post what's happening in the coin world. New things you discover or trends in the market. World coin or U.S. Coin release or design changes.

Moderator: Daniel

Message
Author
User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11181
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#31 Unread post by Daniel » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:14 pm

It has to weigh 3.11g or it's worth face value



PetesPockets55
Forum Supporter
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:08 pm

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#32 Unread post by PetesPockets55 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:07 pm

AtwlRecordings wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:12 pm
https://youtu.be/3McJcn2VXuE
worth?
Yours is not copper.
It is a cent minted on a copper plated zinc planchet. Notice the pitting and deterioration.
BTW- a little more details with your question is helpful and appreciated.

RaulManzanilla
Coining Around
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:33 am

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#33 Unread post by RaulManzanilla » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:41 am

How can I know my car is copper if don't have scale

PetesPockets55
Forum Supporter
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:08 pm

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#34 Unread post by PetesPockets55 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:20 pm

The scale is the easiest and least expensive way to determine the weight. Take it to a jeweler or pawn shop that has one?

cjs0509xl
Coining Around
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#35 Unread post by cjs0509xl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:49 pm

There is a fundamental problem with the generalization that in order for a 1983 to qualify as transitional coin, it must weigh 3.11g.
First, the U.S. mint gives every coin weight parameters, I am not a 100% certain of the number, but for the sake of promoting my theory on why 3.11g just can't be a generalization, let's assume coins before 1982 (since there were some coppers minted when the mint wabeginning the transition to a Zimc alloy) is 2.4g-2.6 g.For the sake of this explanation not accuracy, let's say the limits of a copper coin also equals .1g. and so we will have 3.01-3.22g for copper coims when they are minted.
The 1983 was minted in 1983 and is a coin made from circulation, and most have been around the block. Let's also assume this wear and tear could equal .05 g-to maybe .0175 g, so now you are looking at a lower limit for a copper coin may be 3.005 and now you are very close to having a copper coin which could weight 2.99 g.
That just does not fit with the mantra of 3.11 g. But believe me, it is hardly Ever that zinc pennies are 2.5g on the dot, nor copper pennies weighing in exactly at 3.11g
Here is what is important. You need to weigh all 1982's and 1983's but most importantly you need to understand the mint's weight allowances for each coin minted.
There is no question if a coin falls within the lower and higher limits of these allowances say if the coin weighed 3.05g, It is most definitely copper,
I wonder how many people made the assumption if a transition penny from copper to zinc din't weigh 3.11 give or take .03 g ,it just is not copper.
But here is where things get muddied. Suppose a Lincoln penny weighs in at 2.8g, well quite simply it does not conform to either the standard plus the weight variance of either a zinc or a copper penny, then what?
Well you can make an assumption, it is a very heavy zinc coin or it's a very light copper penny.
Now if it turns out to be a copper coin, youmstill have a teansitionacoin, even though it only weighs 2.8g. But if it is a heavy zinc coin, well then it's not a transitional coin but it is onma wrong planchet.
In 1981, Canada minted a penny which they discontinued in 1982, when they minted a new penny, different metals and weight.
This penny weighs 2.80g and as far as I know, 1981 was the only year a Canadian penny was minted at that weight.It's size was 19.05 mm.It was manufactured with a mixture of Copper,tin and zinc.
Guess what? U.S. pennies are 19.00 mm!
I know, I have a 1983 that weighs 2.82g..I weighed it countless times and usually weigh a wheat coin before hand which I know,will be close to 3.11g and a zinc Shield Penny which I know,will be close to 2.50g. I just happen to have had a 1981 Canadian penny and so I tried an experiment. I put the 1983 back to back with the 1981 Canadian cent and then put a shield penny on one end and a wheat on the other.I turned them on the side to check the edges and guess what the 1983 and Canadian were thicker than the shield and wheat but more remarkably, they looked like twins sandwiched in between.
A specific gravity test would quickly verify my finding.
In the end, now is my 1983 a transitional penny, yes if it is copper, it is but more importantly, it is a transitional penny because it looks like a 1983 but is not zinc, it was by a freak of nature struck on a foreign copper planchet to make it transitional.
I would pay very close attention to the mint weight allowances because if it happened to me, that is, if I found one, you can be sure there are more waiting to be discovered.

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11181
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#36 Unread post by Daniel » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:16 pm

Weight is just the first step in verifying a copper planchet. However, a worn copper planchet that weighs 2.8 would be noticeable in extreme wear and there would be no mistake it was copper. Zincolns do not last long enough to become slicks.

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#37 Unread post by mhonzell » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:20 pm

I've weighed hundreds of cents and unfortunately, they've all been within 0.01 of 3.11 if they were copper. Even the dirty ones.

cjs0509xl
Coining Around
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#38 Unread post by cjs0509xl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:56 pm

I agree about the wear, but do you recal, I put the 1983 next to the Canadian 1983then sandwiched both of them, on one end with a wheat penny and the opposite end, a shield cent.
Conclusion,
Neither the wheat which is copper or the zinc penny were as thick as the 1983.
And the 1983, unless I told you which penny was the 19th and which one was the 1981 Canadian cent are thicker and equal like they are the same coin.
And as far as weighing many and not finding any with weight problems, I wish you the best of luck my friend.Keep plugging,as far as pennies are concerned, there are many in circulation which will make put the transitional to rest until..
But think, they wouldn't be shelling out 18,000 for coins that are easy to find.As for me, Eventhough I judge the penny I have to Be an AU 55 . So be it , I would be ashamed to be greedy when not only is my coin copper but it was also struck on a foreign planchet . Good hunting

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#39 Unread post by mhonzell » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:55 pm

Just so we all know what the AU55, 1983 US Cent, minted on a 1981 Canadian copper planchet looks like:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (39.19 KiB) Viewed 21 times

By the way...
The 1981 Canadian cent was made at 2.8g, 19.00 mm diameter, 1.45 mm thick. Oh, and it was made in 1980, as well.
The 1983 US Cent was 2.5g, 19.05 mm in diameter and 1.52 mm thick. A copper US cent would be 3.11g.

I can only guess why it weighs 2.8g.

Might want to fix your story.

PS. Coin weight tolerances are governed by US Law: (meaning the acceptable weight for the US Cent is: copper 2.98g min, zinc 2.63g max)
Attachments
Capture1.JPG

cjs0509xl
Coining Around
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: 1983 Copper Planchet Lincoln Cent $23,500

#40 Unread post by cjs0509xl » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:54 am

Why are you being so defensive? I went into the whole story about what the m U.S. Mint's weight variances, in this case for pennies is.
So what's there to fix, listen carefully since we agree on the lawful weight variances for these pennies, we have already one thing to agree on.
But you concluded your opinion by saying I should fix my story?
No, there's no need to fix anything. The 1983 weighs 2.8 g. PERIOD! It looks like a 1983 cent but clearly falls out of the parameters normally set for U.S. cents by the law and quality control.
Therefore an assumption can be made that there is a problem with the planchet it was struck onto.
There have been quarter struck onto Phillipine coins and guarantee you the weight of that coin was not with what is normally the variance set forth by law.You know what, it didn't really matter 1972 quarter struck onto Phillipine 10 centimo weight 1.98g. Clad quarters weigh 5.67g.
Just because the quarter didn't fit within the parameters really didn't make any difference to anyone but the collectors who wanted it like it was a prize diamond
.looking at the quarter and not having weighed it, I would infer there was some kind of mint planchet error which can be pretty wild sometimes, but after measuring the weight and realizing it still had most of the features of a quarter, it had to have been struck onto a foreign planchet to account for the weight variance which did not satisy the one set forth by the U.S. for minting any coin.
Then there is the 1970-S quarter struck onto a Canadian planchet which weighs 5.83 gm and has a 23.62 mm.and the American clad quarter weighing m in at
5.67 g and having a diameter of 24.26 mm.with a variance of .19g, so in this case fits within the acceptable weight variances allowed.
But I it doesn't change the fact, it's not on an American planchet, not only that, 1941 Canadian quarters we're struck onto silver planchets.
Not the mint,in fact there's a name for it Canadian assisted planchet errors.
And here is the important fact about my 2.80 g 1983 cent, the 1981 CANADIAN PENNY WAS 98% COPPER, 1.5% TIN AND .05g zinc.
And by the way if that picture of a 1983 you posted was an AU anything, the 1983 penny I have must be at least MS-62.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests