Wierd coin

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John
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Wierd coin

#1 Unread post by John »

Hi, my name is John, I just joined this site and would like to tell a little story and hopefully get some feedback and answers to some questions I have. I am an enthusiastic metal detectorist, coin shooting and relic hunting are my favorite pastimes. Basically I love old stuff, anything I find that is old is a treasure to me. I also love flee markets, my wife and I like to peruse these venues in the summer for fun to see what treasures we might find. One of my favorite haunts is a large flee market just outside of Harpers Ferry, West Virginia, we try to go there about three or four times each summer. We live in Maryland about an hour and a half away so we spread out our visits over the course of the summer and fall. As one would expect, if you go somewhere enough you become somewhat aquainted with your favorite venders, mine being the coin dealers, my wife's is the jewelry dealers. I am kind of a tightwad in as much as I never really buy any coins I just check to see what particular coins are selling for. Well, this one time I'm at one of the dealers that sell very high quality gold and silver coins and another dealer comes walking up, recognizes me, says high and procedes to start a conversation with one of the high-end dealers. Now this dealer that walked up is what you might call a low-end dealer. Basically what this guy does is buy bulk foriegn coins by the pound and sells them for a dollar each to mostly children, pretty smart, the road to riches a dollar at a time. I like this guy and talk with him every time we go there. I don't believe this guy is a numismatist, I think he does this stuff for fun and a little extra cash. What makes me say this is the fact that I would never-never-ever-ever sell a coin until I knew exactly what it was and it's value, and believe me I've sold a few coins. I think Taylor Swift understands the NEVER EVER part. Well , back to the story. This guy hands one of the dealers a coin and says "What do you make of that? do you think it's some kind of token or what?" Well needless to say my attention immediately focused on the conversation and the guy looking at the coin. This guy briefly looks at, it shrugs his shoulders, say's "I don't know" and hands it to his partner who takes out a loop and looks it over and say's "couldn't tell ya what it is, probably a token of some sort like ya said" and hands it back to him. Well at this point my curiosity is to much to bear and so I say to the guy, "mind if I look at it?" he say"s sure and hands it to me. The coin was extremly worn and dirty, all you could see was what looked like a coronet liberty head and 1861. After looking it over I handed it back and said "what are you going to do with it?". He looks at me and say's "Sell it I guess", so I said "How much you want for it?", he say's "give me a buck and it's yours" so out comes a dollar and I walk away with this mistery coin. Now I know never-never-ever-ever clean a coin but a bucks just a buck and I had to try to reveal more detail in order to determine what it was, so when I got home I cleaned the you know what out of it. Guess what, I still don't know what this thing is even after month's of research. I'm thinking that maybe it's a pattern coin but I just don't know. Here is a description and possibly someone out there might have an idea. CORONET BUST dated 1861 on obverse. Shielded eagle on reverse. This coin looks exactly like a $2.50 Quarter Eagle. Like I said it is in very poor condition very worn and does not fit any known coin that I can find. The diameter is app. 22.12mm/.87inch. and not perfectly round. this fits the $5.00 Half Eagle Coronet. The weight is 4.4g/.16oz and is closest to a $2.50 Quarter Eagle but it appears to be made of copper instead of gold. Also the dies were not 180 degrees opposed, when you flip it over from obverse to reverse, instead of the eagle being straight up at 12:00 it is at 9:00 with the left wing pointing down to 6:00. The area that should have the moetary denomimation is to worn to show any details. Also, on the reverse where the word America should be is to worn to see, what you do see however is very strange, whre the "ica" of America should be is clearly the word "STAT" again as at the top, it is to worn to see if an "E" was part of the STAT lettering. Another thing, the edge is reeded. Thanks everyone. John :patriot:

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Daniel
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Re: Wierd coin

#2 Unread post by Daniel »

Welcome to the forum and thanks for post your story and question, very interesting. Can you post an image of the coin? It's going to be impossible to identify this coin without and image.

Now I will take a stab with a link to my Confederate Coin article and tell me if it looks anything like the first coin image of this article? http://coinauctionshelp.com/Coin_Help_B ... r-coinage/

The Confederate Cents are extremely rare and there's restrikes but since we're guessing then this is what I will start with.

John
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Re: Wierd coin

#3 Unread post by John »

Thanks for responding Daniel. I took a look at your link and nothing matches. At this time I cannot post a picture but I should be able to in a couple of days. Also as I mentioned in my post, the coin is without doubt identical in apperence to the coins I mentioned, front and back, except for ware, orientation of front to back, being copper, and the second word state on the back. thanks again, John

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Re: Wierd coin

#4 Unread post by Daniel »

Alright, I read that but missed the reverse description for some reason. There were 1861 Coronet Patterns issued but these were carefully preserved with only a few pieces in existance. Then it makes me think of a trial piece in copper but again these are not found in such condition, but not impossible, just never heard of one being "found" in random coins.

If it's an incorrect planchet that was struck on a Large Cent copper blank with the Coronet design is another possibility. However, the one possibility that's most likely, considering this is Civil War era is a Store Token, since they used similar designs as real coins and the US government eventually out-lawed tokens and private issues.

One other possibility is that it's a copper counterfeit but it should have a denomination. Does it have a denomination or can you even tell if it once did?

John
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Re: Wierd coin

#5 Unread post by John »

Daniel, thanks again for responding. First, I don't believe it was punched on a large cent planchet because of the diameter which is roughly that of a modern nickle. I can not tell the original quality of the coin because of the extensive amount of ware but it appears to have been in the normal range. As I said earlier, the area on the reverse ( 6:00 ) where the monetary denomination should be is worn away. I read that patern coins were often sent to congressmen and such for their opinion on the design or size or other particulars and sometimes the coins would not be returned for different reasons. Concidering the fact that this coin was probably not a production coin ( unless it was a store token ) and therefore not in circulation, I'm thinking maybe it was someones lucky coin that they kept in their pocket and nervously rubbed it all the time. There has to be a reason for the amount of ware if it is not an actual coin. Also Daniel I will post pictures Sunday or Monday for you to study, my son is going to take the pictures for me and I'm at the mercy of his schedule. Thanks again, John

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Re: Wierd coin

#6 Unread post by americanlegacy »

Just playing catch-up here, so here goes: John, the object you have would very likely be a German manufactured game counter/spielmark. I don't have the specific relevant reference in my head this moment, but if you apply a Google search with the key words 1861 spielmark or 1861 game counter, you should eventually find the necessary citations for your piece.

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