1983 Lincoln Cent Counter Clash?

[thebeezneez]

Hi! I'm so thankful for this resource and that you would take your time to inform others.

Here is a 1983 Lincoln Cent that has a lot going on... it is hard for me to decipher what is a result of normal wear and tear on busy coins like this, and what is an actual error. I have been looking at pennies through a magnifying glass for a week now and though I have found plenty of errors, I have to admit that I have not seen any two pennies that look the same. For instance, below is a list of the aspects of this coin that I find curious. Would you be willing to tell me which of the items below are within the realm of typical, and which are a result of an error?

Curious aspects:

OBVERSE:
* Though I know that 1984 is typically the double ear error, this coin seems to have a double ear, or at least some type of error on the ear.
* The lettering on the obverse is very close to the cud.
* Lincoln seems to be missing a significant portion of his throat, and lower right jacket (underneath the date)
* There seems to be some doubling on the cud on the right hand side.
*Tie is mangled
*"y" on LIBERTY is weak
*Top of "T" on TRUST seems to be doubled, though I don't notice doubling elsewhere on the lettering (do you, if so, where?)
* the beard has a chip, through which deeper red is showing (cut himself shaving??)
* chipping throughout hair and at facial-hairline

REVERSE:
* "S" on States appears to be doubled
* Most of "States" is compromised
* Again, lettering is close to the cud.
* Right side cud has a little bump (what's that thing called?)
* The "E" and "P" of E-Pluribus is compromised (wear, grease, or ddr?)
* There is a angled cut through the top of the "C" on CENT. (I often see this and have no idea whether this indicates wear or doubling)

[PetesPockets55]

First let me say, Welcome to the forum.

You have a lot of questions, so let me start by saying unfortunately, this is NOT a cud. That is a big stain on TRUST. A cud would be attached to the rim but would be made up of metal from the planchet and caused by the die literally breaking away in the area of the cud.

As far as the double ear goes, nope. These copper plated Lincoln's had a lot of different types of plating issues. I think the area above the normal lobe might be a plating blister. One was to test it it to push on it with a tooth pick and see if it "deflates".

EDIT: That might be a die gouge on the chin. Gouges are just larger than chips.

[PetesPockets55]

I might be seeing things but can you get a closeup of IN God and the area directly below them?

[thebeezneez]

sure. I can take another picture if these don't show clearly.

[thebeezneez]

better photo...

[thebeezneez]

This coin is so busy that I keep asking myself if there isn't another coin struck underneath. I keep finding what I feel could be letters from another die on the face, in the hair, etc. I see an A on the cheek in front of the ear, a ddo on S in TRUST, etc. In front of the forehead, etc.

[PetesPockets55]

thanks. That second one is pretty clear.
Had to make sure it wasn't one of the two counter clashes for 1983.

Yeah, the mint had a lot of issues (clashes, cuds, wrong planchet errors, plating issues, etc.) in 1983, coming off the launch of the copper plated zinc cents.
The area on the chin you mentioned before shows to be recessed in the second image. If it is this would tend to be PSD or a struck through.

[PetesPockets55]

Back to your question on the reverse- (Images are hard to see when enlarged.)

REVERSE:
* "S" on States appears to be doubled ------------- Plating issue
* Most of "States" is compromised
* Again, lettering is close to the cud.
* Right side cud has a little bump (what's that thing called?) ---- Not a cud. But if the bump is looking like a volcano that would be the zinc core rupturing.
* The "E" and "P" of E-Pluribus is compromised (wear, grease, or ddr?) ---- Probably die wear from age or plating again.
* There is a angled cut through the top of the "C" on CENT. (I often see this and have no idea whether this indicates wear or doubling) -- Hard to tell but if it is incuse (recessed) it is more than likely PSD (Post Strike Damage) But here again clearer images might say something different.

[thebeezneez]

OK. so.. let me see if I understand.
Reverse: the (recessed) line through the C is PSD, The various bumps are bubbles, the fact that states and E-Plur is not strong is likely because the strike hit grease or the plate was old. The S on states is more likely an old plate than a double strike.

Obverse: There are 2 counter clashes for 1983, this isn't one of them. Since I'm pretty sure the (once again, recessed) jaw/chin is not post strike damage, at least not fully, it is likely a result of a strike through.

This, of course, brings up a few more questions.
1. Should I not use the zoom on my camera?
2. What are the 1983 known counter clashes?
3. Do you not see the image of an A when you look close up at the cheek in front of the ear? (my imagination?)

Thanks so much for taking your time to look at this for me. I'm learning so much from you and I really appreciate your willingness to teach.

-L

[Daniel]

The 1983 counter clashes have a huge rim to rim die break CUD and lettering on the obverse above the date. It is best to look an image up and then compare.

Also please make detailed use of the title. As in what you think your coin is because it helps us find you post better. Thanks

[thebeezneez]

Oh wow! The picture helps! That's so obvious.

I see how this would help with the title, and will do so in the future. I guess, then, prior to asking about a particular coin in question, I should search prior conversations?

[Daniel]

No, you don't have to do that unless you want to. The title helps me find your posts and will help others find this answer when they search Google. Thanks!

[PetesPockets55]

The 1983 counter clashes have a huge rim to rim die break CUD and lettering on the obverse above the date. It is best to look an image up and then compare.

Also please make detailed use of the title. As in what you think your coin is because it helps us find you post better. Thanks

I thought only 1 had a cud on the reverse? CCL(TII)-1c-1983-01 .

The second one for 1983 is CCL(TII)-1C-1983-02 (No Cud) which doesn't have a cud, does it? Can't seem to find any images of the reverse of this one.

[Daniel]

Your coin has plating bubbles and not die marks or clash marks. Your coin is normal.

[PetesPockets55]

I agree with you Daniel, that the Op's coin is normal.

But it was I asking about whether only one 1983 counter clash has a cud on the reverse in post #13?
Thanks in advance, Cliff/Petespockets55

[Daniel]

There can be counter clashes without the CUD since the CUD is an error and a rim to rim die break and is not required for a counter clash to happen. I also pointed out the clashed lettering above the date. The 01 is in Cherry Pickers and is valuable so I assume this is the one the OP is thinking on. An assumption I shouldn't have made.

Also if the 1983-02 had a CUD the metal displacement would show on the opposing side so the 02 doesn't have a CUD.

But glad you pointed that out.