broad struck or a proof penny

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, POST IT HERE. Numismatic related posts only.

Moderator: Daniel

Forum rules
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.

1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.

2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.

3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.

4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.

5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.

6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.

7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
Post Reply
Message
Author
ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

broad struck or a proof penny

#1 Unread post by ginodd »

1990 had a proof coin no s was wondering how to tell a broad struck from a proof
Attachments
100_0722.JPG
100_0712.JPG

PetesPockets55
Forum Supporter
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1863
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:08 pm
Has thanked: 236 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#2 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

Your 1990 no S does appear to be proof from these images but not broadstruck. Broad struck coins would be larger in diameter than a normal strike and possibly a little off center and/or beveled rims. Your example has nice crisp, well defined rims. Also, if there is no collar to maintain correct diameter when the die strikes, the planchet would expand past the normal diameter.
What is the diameter of your coin? The normal diameter for a1990 Lincoln cent is 19.00 millimeters (1.9 centimeters) according to PCGS Coinfacts.
Here is the link to CoinHelp page on broadstruck coins. CH Broadstruck
If it is proof (as it appears), :greatfind: it looks like you've got a nice find there! Congratulations

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#3 Unread post by ginodd »

had a phone app ruler said its 1.9 mm

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 26230
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 1123 times
Been thanked: 4093 times
Contact:

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#4 Unread post by Daniel »

I don't believe this is a proof since it has no deep cameo effect, has too much die file lines and would be rare and valuable without an S. It looks like a normal 1990 business strike that was struck by a recently filed die to remove die clash marks.

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2734
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#5 Unread post by mhonzell »

Here is the one from PCGS:
1990 No S Proof.jpg
Note the difference in the legends.
I'm the first to admit that unless a proof is in pristine condition, I usually fail to recognize it as a proof. But, the "squareness" of the lettering is almost always different than the business strike. Also, look at the small ridges above the T and E in United. They are different. On the PCGS coin, they touch the letters. On yours, they are separated. (Note: Some of the PCGS markings are strike doubling, which will be unique to the individual coin.)

As to the cameo effect... well, I know from photographing a myriad of Kennedy Half Dollar proofs that the cameo is easily lost unless photographed in a particular fashion. On the PCGS coin above, you can see the cameo effect for comparison on the broader smooth surfaces of Lincoln's coat and face. Or, the flat areas between the columns on the reverse. I don't see these on your coin, either.

The scratches on the lower area of the Lincoln bust... I'm leaning towards storage slide marks.
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 26230
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 1123 times
Been thanked: 4093 times
Contact:

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#6 Unread post by Daniel »

I must disagree about slide marks because this is a low lying area and would be on the bust as well, plus the slides, slide horizontal and not vertical.

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2734
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#7 Unread post by mhonzell »

I agree that the bust is a low lying area on the die, but it is raised on the coin. Polishing a low spot on a die is less common, especially without wearing the edges of the device down. And, the areas I'm talking about don't typically show a die clash. If you are talking about the lines being high or low, then I understand the point... polished die lines would result in relief lines and PMD would result in incuse lines. Of course, I can't tell from the photo if the lines are in relief or incuse.

So, I guess I need to make sure we are talking about the same areas. The green arrows are pointing to what I am considering PMD, and all but one looks like a high point to me.

The red arrows may be clash/polish marks, but aren't those usually in the fields?
x.jpg
On the slide comment, I guess I was referring to the storage of some of my coins in a drawer. When I open the drawer, the obverse is exposed to the edge of the drawer slot with the base of the device first as I pull out the drawer. I think you are referring to the Danco coin holders with the sliding plastic inserts.

Side note: I'm just trying to learn... not condemning anyone.
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18834
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 897 times
Been thanked: 3272 times

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#8 Unread post by Paul »

may i ask "where" you found, or picked up 'this exact coin'from plz?
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 26230
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 1123 times
Been thanked: 4093 times
Contact:

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#9 Unread post by Daniel »

M... didn't mean to sound any certain way. We're all still learning here, even me.

Anyway, we're talking about the same area and I might be incorrect on the filing to remove clash marks idea; but studying cents I see a lot of these lines and some I can contribute to slide marks from storage but like these it isn't that easy. Marks just in this area must be purposeful and not random since this are is protected by the rim, if accidental then there should be more marks further up the bust and not just exclusive to the cloak area.

I would gladly take a correction on this but I always attributed these marks as something that happened at the mint. You're correct that die file lines on the working die would be raised and I've found many cents with those lines. So I thought these lines, since they look "struck" over and different from scratches" were the product of the working hub being "cleaned" off before it created the working die. If you look closely at the 1991 I posted earlier you will see the lines on this coin as well and they're incuse but not like lines I would put on them.

But incuse like a mirrored effect, if that makes sense. A low spot on a hub die becomes a raised area on a working die and a concave are becomes incuse on a die and that's what some of these lines look like. I have seen cents covered in these lines and it looks different than if I took steal wool to them myself.

So I could be wrong and completely missing something here but I do enjoy the debate since it can bring out some things never thought of or considered when it comes to anomalies.

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18834
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 897 times
Been thanked: 3272 times

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#10 Unread post by Paul »

i hugeeyes a "standard business hit" from these pics
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#11 Unread post by ginodd »

Just lucky I guess a pawn shop I brought in crappy silver coins trade for this dusty book he said they where worthless but I thank him for having a early 2000's cherry picker lol also found out I have what I guess is a gold 1960 n more been asking from this book n found many errors in it

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#12 Unread post by ginodd »

Had some found in circulation too but not any value when I look at my 1969 s has a triple stack on mint mark I don't get paid till the second will get some valued n go from there

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#13 Unread post by ginodd »

Not to sound weird but that 1.9 are all proofs ??

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#14 Unread post by ginodd »

Even my 1969 I posted is 1.9 with the swirlies

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#15 Unread post by ginodd »

Should I measure more coins ??

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#16 Unread post by ginodd »

There is no such thing as a 1977 d proof I dont know was just wondering

ginodd
Coining Around
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#17 Unread post by ginodd »

So they are regular coins nothing special ??

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 26230
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Ohio
Has thanked: 1123 times
Been thanked: 4093 times
Contact:

Re: broad struck or a proof penny

#18 Unread post by Daniel »

Yes, just regular coins this time but keep looking and posting since you never know.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post