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Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:45 am
by Daniel
I am sorry but you do not understand the minting process. I am not trying to be rude but you need to read about the minting process and get the book by Alan Herbert on mint varieties, it's called The Official Price Guide To Mint Errors, and read this cover to cover.

The dies are adjusted to perfectly strike the coin's design and the collar keeps the edges and diameter of the coin in the mint specified diameter. In no way can extra metal be smashed like this and extra metal comes from the annealing process and looks like a thin fence standing along the rim anyway. It does not look smashed or folded.

I can tell by the design that this coin was struck with normal die pressure so there's no way the hammer, anvil or the collar die can upturn the metal like this, since during the strike all three dies form a chamber the exact size of the coin, no way it can fold metal since there's no room in this little chamber.

The dies come together with tons of pressure and smash any object above the normal coin's thickness into the planchet and makes the coin and struck through material the same thickness as the coin. You're coin is not a uniform thickness.

You're arguing with decades of experience and it's obvious you haven't seen a well executed coin ring, they're more symmetrical than your coin.

As I stated before, it can't be a broadstrike in any sense of the meaning because the coin is not larger in diameter. It looks nothing like a broadstrike.

I know what you're thinking, you think your coin was a broadstrike then got struck again, but that doesn't cause this lip to form since the same problem that caused the broadstrike would not have been fixed in a split second. Those dies are pounding at an extreme rate of speed and under tons of pressure and when a coin is struck it's blown out of the chamber and another coin enters and this happens in less than a second.

You have to think real time speed here and not like the coin just set there after first strike, problem fixed, and then struck again. If that did happen then it still would not fold the metal over since there's no over-lapping of either die and the metal would be smashed into the coin without a crease.

I can see a crease along along this "folded" metal and it has dirt in it, that crevice would not be present if it was struck with dies under tons of pressure.

Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:49 pm
by bomber7777
ok answer this question, how is it possible for the writing to be on the rim that matches underneath perfectly, there is no process post mint strike that can take the lettering off the coin and then put on the rim where the folded over metal is,,,,so answer how that happened?--if you can tell me how the writing is ON the folded over part of the metal (not showing thru it), I could understand and not be so persistent, I agree with you, I thought this coin was not mint myself at first glance, but I am telling you, if you saw this coin, you would have to wonder.....could this be a one in a million mint error?--just possibly?---if this is in fact a mint strike coin, it would be one of the rarest ever, correct?

Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:24 pm
by PetesPockets55
Hey Bomber 7777.
Daniel has given you some very detailed descriptions of how the minting process works and why it is NOT a mint error. You seem convinced otherwise.
Got an experiment for you to try that might help answer your question about "How?"
Take a regular coin similar to yours and two pieces of angle iron or flat steel (the heavier the better).
Put the coin on its edge between the two metal pieces and roll the coin back and forth while you exert pressure down on it. I believe the more you roll it the more it will "wobble" and roll the edges of the coin over on itself. It might not give you an exact duplicate of your coin but it may help you visualize how it could have been done.
Another thing that might give the same effect is one of those "rolling" knife sharpeners that you put your knife blade into ("V" shaped slot for the blade) and roll it on the counter. Friction can do "wonderful" things to metal!
OR ... Google "coin shop or clubs" within your zip code that you would be able to bring it in to maybe get an answer to your doubts.
No matter what the outcome, keep posting pics and questions. We all like learning from each others posts. :thumbsup:

Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:11 pm
by Paul
how about more BETTER pictures?

Re: Please Help me identity this Error it is not post strike

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:49 pm
by Daniel
I don't see any lettering on the folded rim metal, but if it's incuse then another coin could have been used. If it looks like regular lettering, not mirrored or upside down, then the folded metal could be thin enough to take on the shape of the letter underneath.

If the die struck this coin a second time, after this fold, (even IF it could happen) then the lettering would be as obvious as the original strike and the folded metal would be smashed flush with, and like the rest of the coin. No way could the die strike letters on this raised and folded metal and not smash it flush and impart obvious lettering.

Please feel free to post better images, it helps to have better images.