1964 Kennedy SMS

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Peaceman
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1964 Kennedy SMS

#1 Unread post by Peaceman »

Hello All,
I have an interesting 1964 Kennedy Half. I took photos and enlarged and compared to three listed on Heritage Auctions. All Die marks/lines in same directions, same locations, and more interesting is above Left top of U in United. This coin has File marks on reeded area that slightly extend over the square rim in that location that match if you really look close at graded images. The area on rim in that location matches exactly. This says that the collar was same as the coin in my hand. All die cracks, lines,etc. match. However, very little separation in letters of WE or teardrop. How does all match even the reeded collar impressions with no or hardly seperation in WE or noticeable tear drop. I believe early strike like the graded 69 which does not have that.
The same dies and same collar was used on my coin as graded one on Heritage that has a mark above that U in united.
kennedysms1.jpg
kennedysms2.jpg
1964smssp67o.jpg
1964smssp67r.jpg

If you enlarge the first two images and compare every mark matches. then look around that U. Same marks on rim, I took a loop and looked at graded reverse above and around that U while image blown up. Same exact marks on rim besides all others. Can only be from same die pair and collar with file looking marks that were on collar.

Bob
kennedysms1.jpg
kennedysms1.jpg
Download images then enlarge.. check all marks,, lines,, bumps...
I was curious if someone could explain exact marks and same on rim area that is made with different dies. You would be better than DaVinci....
Not possible. Thus this is from same dies.
Attachments
mir_20211011_234525.jpg
20211013_002410.jpg
20211013_002621.jpg
Last edited by Peaceman on Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#2 Unread post by Iceresistance »

I don't know, there are 1964 SMS coins that do exist & are extremely valuable, I'll let the experts decide on this.
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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#3 Unread post by Peaceman »

I spent a good 20 hrs looking at every mark, every line and my conclusion was that this is one. I looked at every letter, every star, line, crack, shadow, close up and distance and they match. I just figured I'd post it to see what responses I got. Coins are my passion.

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#4 Unread post by DSCoins »

There is no 1964 SMS. 1965,1966 and 1967 are the only SMS's
Peaceman wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:52 pm I spent a good 20 hrs looking at every mark, every line and my conclusion was that this is one. I looked at every letter, every star, line, crack, shadow, close up and distance and they match. I just figured I'd post it to see what responses I got. Coins are my passion.
Funny I looked at the photo of your coin with other the other and I can see major differences in the first 20 seconds
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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#5 Unread post by Peaceman »

Funny all matches... overlay is identicle

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#6 Unread post by Peaceman »

Everyone is entitled to opinion......
All marks match, rim marks match, is also verified file marks on graded specimines at rim from Reed area also match.
SMS, Special test strikes, whatever... they surely didn't copy every die crack, line or re-use dies like they did 1921 Peace Vam 1H...
Again, overlay matches 100% of all noteable marks in any area, take your pick front or back including on rim itself by the U under a scope. Not sure how ya explain that, maybe you know the answer???
Please do explain??

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#7 Unread post by Peaceman »

Kinda hard to explain exact marks, cracks, enlarged they match all 3 graded. They don't talk about the file lines from the reeded area. That makes it sealed whether it has a few differences or not.
If you enlarge the graded and look with a loop you will see the file marks by the U coming from reeds. Small angled line that is toned for starters.
...........

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#8 Unread post by Peaceman »

Posted photos of enlarged photos of each. Rim area above U matches..... hmhm...

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#9 Unread post by Iceresistance »

DSCoins wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:32 pm There is no 1964 SMS. 1965,1966 and 1967 are the only SMS's
That actually do exist, but they are very rare, even PCGS knows they are rare & more could still be out there.

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#10 Unread post by Water_and_Dirt »

I'm not an expert but bro look at the hairlines it's way different , your coin is not as detailed on the hair area as the sms

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#11 Unread post by Daniel »

The minting process for Kennedy halves in 1964 was similar, same techniques, so these coins all can have similar appearances, die marks, ext. The 1964 SMS has a special finish, this coin does not, this coin has been beat up on the cheek from rubbing other coins, but real 1964 SMS coins do NOT have rubs, because they were discovered in 1991 in a deceased mint directors home and all of them where in the rectangle snap holders used for the 65-67 SMS sets.
You're not just going to find one of these. I've had people show me proofs and really nice Kennedy Halves thinking they're the SMS and they're not. If everyone had one of these that thought they did, then they would be common. At least one person a week thinks they found one.

My question to you is this. Why are you posting it here? If you're convinced then send it to PCGS. Debating people in a help community is a futile effort. You're not going to get anywhere or any validation doing that. So submit your coin and get back with us, so no more rebuttals until I see a 1964 SMS in a PCGS or NGC holder from you or ANYONE who claims they discovered one in a collection.

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Re: 1964 Kennedy SMS

#12 Unread post by Earle42 »

I agree. This is the history of these SMS 64s, and people online "find" a lot of them.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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