82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

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82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#1 Unread post by AverageStacker »

Going through my pile of coins that I set aside during my silver hunt and found these two coins back to back! While not a whole lot of value here, it is still neat to find. Now here is my question for the higher ups (and the more experienced)...Why are some No FG's recognized by Fivas Stanton and yet others are not? The 82p has been designated as the FS-901 but not the 83p. This holds true among other types of coins as well (Lincoln Cents).
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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#2 Unread post by Iceresistance »

1983-P no FG could be a discovery coin? I legitimately don't see the FG at all . . .


Also, the no FG could be a grease strike on other coins, the 1982-P no FG was an over-polished die
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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#3 Unread post by Paul »

The missing designers initials on the 1982 KHD specimens are the result of a "Abraded Die".

CONECA has this listed as ADR-001

It's important that you keep in mind how small and shallow these DI's are....... which in turn makes them very easy to polish off or become plugged. That's why it's important to be able to determine the "Die State" of the coin struck.

Many of the true missing design element specimens that have been certified, have had their dies inspected (as I have been told).
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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#4 Unread post by Earle42 »

I have an entire essay on just the No FG Kennedy halves linked to in my signature. It is a comprehensive, data filled (with links), study into the No FG varieties as slabbed by the "professionals" at PCGS

You find the facts about the only actual (non-die abrasion) No FG made in 1982 (the rest of listed dates are from dies where polishing removed SOME of the FG), how to tell an actual 1982 No FG without even looking at the REV (Kennedy Half specialist rookie-level info that PCGS slabs indicate PCGS is unaware of), many pictures of PCGS photos of wrongly attributed/slabbed halves that have cost collectors with blind faith in the company thousands of dollars, and how PCGS breaks their own rules of what they say (and the hobby as shown with quotations from main hobby sources) makes up an actual No FG coin.

The paper is an eye opener as to ineptitude the companies have over this aspect of the hobby. They claim three trained and expert graders minimum look at each coin. They also claim each coin is assigned to graders having a specialty in that coin. Yet these slabs show a great deal of ineptitude, or else the company is not grading according to their own statement of how they grade coins.
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Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#5 Unread post by AverageStacker »

Earle42 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:09 am I have an entire essay on just the No FG Kennedy halves linked to in my signature. It is a comprehensive, data filled (with links), study into the No FG varieties as slabbed by the "professionals" at PCGS
I am eagerly looking forward to reading this
You find the facts about the only actual (non-die abrasion) No FG made in 1982 (the rest of listed dates are from dies where polishing removed SOME of the FG), how to tell an actual 1982 No FG without even looking at the REV (Kennedy Half specialist rookie-level info that PCGS slabs indicate PCGS is unaware of)
This is quite interesting when thinking about this overall. Both my 72D No FG's and the 83P (posted above) you can tell that there has been a lot of polishing as the design elements appear quite worn down around the tail feathers etc. On the 82P posted above, this is not the case and is the first time I've seen any "No FG" with that kind of detail around that area.

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#6 Unread post by AverageStacker »

Earle42 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:09 am
You find the facts about the only actual (non-die abrasion) No FG made in 1982 (the rest of listed dates are from dies where polishing removed SOME of the FG), how to tell an actual 1982 No FG without even looking at the REV (Kennedy Half specialist rookie-level info that PCGS slabs indicate PCGS is unaware of)
Well, I can tell you one thing....I'll be looking at that "1" when I get home tonight on the 82!

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#7 Unread post by AverageStacker »

Paul wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:26 am The missing designers initials on the 1982 KHD specimens are the result of a "Abraded Die".

CONECA has this listed as ADR-001



Just to make sure I'm understanding you properly, "Abraded Die" means the die was polished and the initials were removed by such, correct?
I recently went to CONECA for help in getting a No FG Penny recognized, but was flat out told that they would not because it wasn't an actual error, but just an over zealous mint employee overpolishing.

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#8 Unread post by Paul »

Yes to your abraded die question....

Can you post an image of what you have for the no FG cent?
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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#9 Unread post by Daniel »

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#10 Unread post by AverageStacker »

Paul wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:14 pm Yes to your abraded die question....

Can you post an image of what you have for the no FG cent?
Here's where I posted about it in this forum

https://coinauctionshelp.com/forum/view ... 70&t=17300

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#11 Unread post by Earle42 »

Thanks for posting the video Daniel. I had lost the URL to it.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#12 Unread post by AverageStacker »

So basically what I'm hearing is that the 82P is the only true No FG possible as the die was not engraved with the initials. All others are solely due to the result of over-polishing the dies and thereby none of them SHOULD be recognized as a No FG. That makes a whole lot more sense than some being recognized (72D Kennedy, 69D Lincoln Cent) and not others.

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#13 Unread post by Earle42 »

At present, I would say correct.

The 72-D, 66 SMS, and 83 are the most known for what appears to be missing an FG. But I have seen other dates as well.

Since the grading companies offer (for a fee of course) to put "No FG" on the label, its a money maker for them and they include them as if they were legit die errors.

Now if a "No FG" 72-D or 66 shows up with no evidence of die polishing (worn features) around the area where the initials should be, then it would likely be from a legitimate die b/c there would be no reason for a polisher to go in and polish of just the tiny initials.

I can say as of the date on the essay, none of the No FGs of 72-D and 66 SMS slabbed coins did not evidence polishing. In other words, none of them, despite people spending thousands on some, b/c PCGS will slab them, were likely from a die with No FG engraved in it.

Money talks.

As to whether or not the others SHOULD be called No FG varieties, my opinion (note that word) is they could label them as Polished Off FG (or something more eloquent) to be completely honest ...if PCGS is even aware of all of this information, which I am hoping b/c otherwise it seems, at least to me, a bit like PCGS is taking advantage of legitimate collector ignorance.

After all, the first person to note the 72-D "No FG" was a president of PCGS - Ron Guth. You would think with the reputation people give this company for being THE experts, their own "experts" would have known and told him it was only a polishing problem.

I have a 1988 with no trace of FG. It s also very late dies state and so most likely is polished off (I have seen these) and the bad condition of the die took care of the rest of the initials showing up.

But this is not the only case of a polishing problem being slabbed as a legit error with half dollars. The 1945 no AW half is also from polishing off the initials. Yet b/c the registry sets recognize these, PCGA can make money slabbing them...and it keeps a lot of people in the dark.

BTW - I went through many boxes over a 2 year period. I saved each 72-D, 83, and 88 I could find that appeared not to have the initials. These were the main circulated dates used after the initial were partially polished off. The best ones are in my collection labeled as "Polished Off FG," simply for fun and the fact I cannot see it there. But again, its obvious they were polished from the surrounding weak features.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#14 Unread post by AverageStacker »

Glad I sold my 72D MS64 when I did and got my $2k!

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Re: 82P and 83P No FG Kennedy Halves

#15 Unread post by Earle42 »

Wow!
The companies are in the business of making profit - like any company legitimately is.

The sad part is that the non-legit ones go for a lot more than the legit 82s! But the marketing/profit-generating idea of registry sets, thus driving up demand and prices, is more fun to those who enjoy the registry sets when there are more varieties (challenge) recognized by the companies.

i think it would be hard for the hobby to reject these as a whole, especially after a lot of people have a lot of money into them (another sad story of buy the slab and not the coin).
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

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