1866 Indian Head Cent error

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mhonzell
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1866 Indian Head Cent error

#1 Unread post by mhonzell » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:34 pm

Okay, I'm calling it a broadstrike, but I'm not sure.
Yep, it's in a PCGS holder and unattributed for the error(s).
Possible 1866/66. Notice width of second 6.

What do you think?
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a.jpg
untitled-2.jpg
untitled-4.jpg



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Daniel
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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#2 Unread post by Daniel » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:42 am

It looks like it was strike while not completely flat in the collar die, which is not a complete broadstrike or like an inverted partial collar.

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#3 Unread post by mikev50 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:20 pm

it could be Snow-s5 variety---

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#4 Unread post by PetesPockets55 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:30 pm

Really nice 1866.
Is there some thing inside the loop of the first 6 also (parallel the right side)?
When I zoom in on the full obverse image there appears to be something inside the first 6

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#5 Unread post by mhonzell » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:54 am

lol: "inverted partial collar"
I'm trying to imagine that one.
Didn't pop up in my error book.

The denticles were there on the die as evidenced by the reverse. I just can't imagine how the flow covered the rest. But, best I can tell, the coin is about 1 mm larger than it should be. That puts it in broadstrike territory... broken collar.

I think there are indications of an RPD on the second 6. I just haven't found the light angle to see it.

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#6 Unread post by Daniel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:23 am

The inverted collar is when the collar die is installed upside down and causes the coin to be struck incorrectly. You have a normal strike in collar, partial based on improper die installation or other malfunction, then complete broadstrike. I was actually looking for Horizontal misalignment in collar.

It doesn't look like a complete or full broastrike. Information is always changing and being added in this field. I could be off on this one but it's still not spread out like I would expect and is well centered. I don't think the coin was properly seated in the die chamber.

I am also seeing some flanning of the metal at 6 oclock.

Here's on source.
http://www.error-ref.com/inverted-dioe-installation/

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#7 Unread post by mhonzell » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:14 am

I think I'm getting messed up on the terms.
A collar is a flat piece of metal with a hole punched in it. Inverting or flipping over the collar die results in the same strike.
collar.jpg
strike.jpg
In the 1990s, there were attempts at vertical strikes instead of horizontal strikes. They quickly gave that up and it is outside of the date range for this coin.
And, there are machines which invert the use of hammer and die. But, the plain collar has always just sat there.

The edges of this coin are smooth and featureless. No contact with edge of collar.
0001.jpg
0002.jpg
0003.jpg

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#8 Unread post by Daniel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:28 am

You're stuck on my inverted comment of which I corrected and provided a link to explain. http://www.error-ref.com/inverted-dioe-installation/

I do agree this was a collar issue but coins can be misaligned in the collar die then get struck. I pointed an arrow of the area that looks "flanned". Unless the light is playing tricks on my eyes.

If you read the text in the link above then it explains it better than I am. This is obviously not a reeded coin so the edge is going to be smooth.
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1866-indian.jpg

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#9 Unread post by Daniel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:37 am

Not all collar dies look like the one in your image, some are in three parts and one can be misaligned. I have not researched which collar die type was used for Indian Cents, but you image appears to have reeding as well. I am just offering my opinion so subject to error since you have the coin in hand.

Also the collar die rest on the anvil die and if it's not fitted properly it can cause issues with the strike.
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Collar-Die.jpg

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Re: 1866 Indian Head Cent error

#10 Unread post by mhonzell » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:01 am

Yeah, I read that and I couldn't make it fit. And, I did get stuck on the inverted.
I know you're giving me your professional opinion from a photo. Thanks!!

I was showing the edge to indicate I didn't see a step or break on the edge. (Partial collar, broken collar.)

I'm pretty sure the IHC collar was a solid ring, but I'll have to dig that up.
In the meantime, I actually found another one struck with the same collar?
It is in slightly better shape. More denticles on the obverse.
Same die break under bust.
What are the odds of finding that?
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3001558_Full_Obv-horz.jpg

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