Is this a rare variety of Double Die or ?

Message

EricPatino · Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:26 pm

What is the rarity & value of this coin ?? Is it a DDO ? first of its kind ? NEED HELP before I send to PCGS I need to know a value for insurance purposes. thank you, ERIC
WEIGHT is 3.10 Grams - Millimeter measurment across is 19 MM or about 3/4 " - if you need more pics let me know. I posted requested ones of nose & reverse.

EricPatino · Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:27 pm

I neeed help to identify the rarity & value of this error ? Is it a DDO ? is it the first of its kind ??? HELP Please ...I need to know how much to insure for before submitting.

Daniel · #3 Unread post by **Daniel** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:47 pm

It looks like a double strike but also with a tilt and rotated because it didn't affect the date. I haven't see tilted hub doubling that looks like this. At any rate you can't assign a value to something like this unless you can find sold examples and we must know what PCGS puts on the label and the grade.

It's not the best thing in the world to have a unique coin since it's like your credit report the more good you have on it the higher it is. So we need to find more like this one to come up with a value.

Paul · #4 Unread post by **Paul** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:23 pm

interesting...
can you post a pic of the reverse, the 'nose' area,....& have you checked the magnitism, weight, & diameter of the coin?

EricPatino · Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:58 pm

1977-D is Not magnetic if thats what you meant by magnetism...

Paul · #6 Unread post by **Paul** » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:25 pm

EricPatino wrote:1977-D is Not magnetic if thats what you meant by magnetism...

sorry, typo....i need to take a break....my hugeeyes are burning

Paul · #7 Unread post by **Paul** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:06 am

thx for the x-tra pics.....
FYI....i wanted the other pics to see:
the 'bridge' of the nose, to see the 'depth' of detail, if any "polishing" was done...
the 'reverse', to see if there were any 'large cracks', or a 'die break'...

i copied these pics to my puter, & used my CAD to 'measure' the doubling.....
like i tell everyone, it is a BAD practice to give a 100% attribution decision FROM AN IMAGE ONLY.....but so far, i like what i see here.

d?, C2CW?, i see no pivot for a C5, & look 'behind' (to K7) the ear (pic below).

can i look at this under 'my scope'?..

sourdough · #8 Unread post by **sourdough** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:22 pm

Gonna butt in here...

I have not even the slightest amount of expertise insofar as doubled-dies are concern.

It appears to me the coin is struck thru a very, very thin rotated capped die, and although it appears not to have a "wire" rim, this sometimes happens with a very thin cap.

Here is an example I have. I realize my coin exhibits a ragged, deteriorated cap with a previous indent.

If the OP's coin is indeed a doubled-die strike or double strike, why is the date and MM not affected, nor the reverse? The offset of LIBERTY and IGWT are HUGE vs. the date/MM.

Just my $.02.

Daniel · #9 Unread post by **Daniel** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:02 pm

Even struck through a die cap would effect the date so I am imagined a slightly tilted coin, maybe it was struck, new planchet enters the chamber, the previous struck coin bounces back into the chamber and is at an angle and slightly rotated, then struck again (Even the die might have become tilted after the strike). I see a weakness of letters toward the cent of the coin. I am not saying this is what it is but an educated guess on what it could be.

I would like to see the reverse as well.

sourdough · Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:39 pm

Daniel wrote:Even struck through a die cap would effect the date so I am imagined a slightly tilted coin, maybe it was struck, new planchet enters the chamber, the previous struck coin bounces back into the chamber and is at an angle and slightly rotated, then struck again (Even the die might have become tilted after the strike). I see a weakness of letters toward the cent of the coin. I am not saying this is what it is but an educated guess on what it could be.

I would like to see the reverse as well.

Very good observation. Bold, not necessarily, but all errors of this type do not fit the certain pointers or regimens.

This is a very good discussion on a fairly weird error. Thanks to the OP.

Paul · #11 Unread post by **Paul** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:04 pm

sourdough wrote:Gonna butt in here...

I have not even the slightest amount of expertise insofar as doubled-dies are concern.

It appears to me the coin is struck thru a very, very thin rotated capped die, and although it appears not to have a "wire" rim, this sometimes happens with a very thin cap.

Here is an example I have. I realize my coin exhibits a ragged, deteriorated cap with a previous indent.

If the OP's coin is indeed a doubled-die strike or double strike, why is the date and MM not affected, nor the reverse? The offset of LIBERTY and IGWT are HUGE vs. the date/MM.

Just my $.02.

VERY

Paul · #12 Unread post by **Paul** » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:59 pm

Daniel wrote:Even struck through a die cap would effect the date so I am imagined a slightly tilted coin, maybe it was struck, new planchet enters the chamber, the previous struck coin bounces back into the chamber and is at an angle and slightly rotated, then struck again (Even the die might have become tilted after the strike). I see a weakness of letters toward the cent of the coin. I am not saying this is what it is but an educated guess on what it could be.

I would like to see the reverse as well.

d, FC rev. was edit-posted in orig "1st post"...along with 'nose', silly...
your idea on 're-struck' sounds plausible, but i think with a K7 - K2, you would need to hugeeyes something on the 'back' of the head also..... :dunno , i would need to hugeeyes first hand under the scope

Paul · #13 Unread post by **Paul** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:49 pm

EricPatino wrote:What is the rarity & value of this coin ?? Is it a DDO ? first of its kind ? NEED HELP before I send to PCGS I need to know a value for insurance purposes. thank you, ERIC
WEIGHT is 3.10 Grams - Millimeter measurment across is 19 MM or about 3/4 " - if you need more pics let me know. I posted requested ones of nose & reverse.

e sent me his coin....
d, i think e found a C5K5, WIIIIDE DDO, off to mike

CopperFinger · Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:09 pm

I'm curious what was the final verdict on this error?

dipper13 · #15 Unread post by **dipper13** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:22 pm

The sad truth is it all depends on what the grading company puts on the description. The wexler 77D penny does not look this good. I personally would send it to pcgs or ngc and cross my fingers.

Paul · #16 Unread post by **Paul** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:51 pm

e,
you wanna tell them ?

CopperFinger · Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:23 pm

Well i dont understand all these abb. C5K5 and so onso maybe someone well explain to me what this all means and what the coin actually is.

Paul · #18 Unread post by **Paul** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:26 pm

hugeeyes

Paul · #19 Unread post by **Paul** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:27 pm

hugeeyes

cwb · #20 Unread post by **cwb** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:34 pm

It appears to be a "Rotated Double-Strike in collar". There are some examples of this type of error on my website if you can find it. If genuine, they can be fairly valuable, but counterfeits are known to exist. Counterfeiters will use fake dies to make the second strike on a genuine Lincoln cent.
EDIT: It doesn't really fit as a rotated doubled strike either. I'm not sure what is going on with it.

Paul · #21 Unread post by **Paul** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:47 pm

look at the 'DIAMETER' of the coin....19.81mm

cwb · #22 Unread post by **cwb** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:20 pm

The left side of the reverse is weakly struck compared to the right side. This leads me to believe that it is a striking error, not a die error. If it were a doubled die obverse, it wouldn't have any effect on the reverse side.

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