PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

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rjp
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PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#1 Unread post by rjp » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:07 am

Here is a new one for me and was wondering if anyone has heard of PNGL company
I collect 1881-S Morgan Dollars in odd and out of business holders,
I call them my collection of mis-fits, and being 81-S nobody breaks them out so you really can find a lot of them.
IMO, I would guess PNGL might be out of Washington DC, but only because of the similarity between ANACS and PNGL. Looks like old employees that left ANACS when they moved to Colorado Springs and they started their own business in Washington DC. The date of the cert seems to fit in with it.
I really like this coin and holder. This 1881-S really is a nice MS63, there are a couple of scuffs on the cheek so I don't think it is better, but also it has an overall nice look for a MS63 coin. I think that they did accurately grade this one.

Daniel, Please add this photo cert to your list of companies that are out of business.
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PNGL Photo Cert 1881S rev.jpg
PNGL Photo Cert 1881S obv.jpg


Bob
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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#2 Unread post by PALH1 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:56 am

fantastic,
i love these.
?? a group of guys getting together, most likely dumping their life savings into a business venture, THAT THEY KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT, & unfortunatly went belly up ??
you don't pull & re-holder these do you?
question: is the 'grade' MS63/63, a obv/rev grade??

thx 4 sharing :thumbsup:

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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#3 Unread post by Daniel » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:07 am

It will be added and anymore info on this subject would be welcomed.

Paul, the 63/63 is for the reverse and obverse and was how TPG like ANACS started grading coins and is most accurate in my opinion.

I like these obsolete holders as well, very interesting.

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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#4 Unread post by Daniel » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:01 am

PNGL has been added, would like more info but at least it has its own webpage now http://coinauctionshelp.com/PNGL.html

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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#5 Unread post by dipper13 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:15 pm

I have seen a couple of these. They are copying ANACS from years ago OBV / REV. I think they did these honestly, but I do not believe ex ANACS guys did. Anacs moved from Ohio to Texas and Colorado. I think the Washington DC address is to make you believe they are "official." The ones I saw were kind of accurate, maybe a little generous. Look at the cheek on this coin. Dan

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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#6 Unread post by rjp » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:36 pm

In 1972 ANACS started in Washington DC and moved to Colorado Springs, Co. and Photo Certs with a serial number A xxxx, B xxxx, or C xxxx were authencated in Washington DC. When Grading started on Mar 1, 1979 All ANACS operations were now located in Colorado at the ANA headquarters (opened 1967).
I only was thinking that PNGL could have been started by ex-employees of ANACS since not all employees would have moved to Colorado, but 8 years has past since ANACS moved and PNGL had graded this one.
As far as the grade goes, I think it is very close to todays standards, It is not a MS-64 grade. The scuffs on the cheek would keep it at a MS-63 grade.
Only a few companys had used the split grade Obv/Rev.

I collect out of business Third Party Holders, so none of the coins/holders will ever be broken.
Also PCGS Rattlers,
ANACS Photo Certs and 1st Generation holders
ANACS Small white holders, (21 different types so far, trying to Identifiy all of the different holders}
And Sample Slabs
Bob
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Daniel
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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#7 Unread post by Daniel » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:39 pm

ANACS was located in Ohio for a time, so I am not sure what timeline we're referring to here. Did they move from D.C. to Colorado then to Ohio then back to Colorado? I know for a fact they were in Ohio because I sent coins to them and I am in Ohio. I also have a source for when they moved to Texas before they moved to Colorado.

I am not sure why their website doesn't reflect this info but it was all was in press releases.

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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#8 Unread post by rjp » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:09 pm

Yes, ANACS has been in all the states that are mentioned here.
They started in Washington DC, (1972-Approx Late 1978)
Then to Colorado Springs, Co with the ANA (1978-June 1990)
Then to Dublin, Ohio with AMOS Press (June 1990-Mar 2005)
next was to Austin, Texas with Anderson Press (Mar 2005-Dec 2007)
Then to Englewood, Colorado when James Taylor bought them Driving Force, LLC, of Colorado (Dec 2007- present), and hired all that would go from ICG and ICG moved to Tampa, Florida, from Englewood, Colorado.
Bob
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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#9 Unread post by PALH1 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:59 pm

may i ask, if you know?:
were these 'growth' moves?
or,..takeover/buy-out moves?
:dunno whistling2:

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Re: PNGL Photo Cert 1881-S and holder

#10 Unread post by Daniel » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:04 am

I think it was more like take-over moves and hurt ANACS more than helping their growth. I think they're back on track now, so ANACS needs to stay put with same ownership to build trust as they have been for the last few years.

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