DWM- (Denver West Mint)

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epop
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DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#1 Unread post by epop »

Have anyone heard of this company?
Two slabbed coins appeared in my greek forum and I don't have a clue about them
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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#2 Unread post by Daniel »

Hum, they look to be a low tier, if that, slabber. There's no Denver West Mint in THE US unless it's a private mint so these coins would either be tokens or fake. Do you have a link or images of the entire coins?

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#3 Unread post by epop »

coins looks genuine.They are cheap coins,nithing special.
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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#4 Unread post by Daniel »

Don't know who they're but the coins do look genuine. However, their toning is artificial and made to look like it's "bulls-eye" toning for better appeal. At least I am sure the Columbian Half is AT.

marks460

Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#5 Unread post by marks460 »

Daniel wrote:Don't know who they're but the coins do look genuine. However, their toning is artificial and made to look like it's "bulls-eye" toning for better appeal. At least I am sure the Columbian Half is AT.
Hi, yes the coins are genuine ,but the toning is not as i have bought several Morgan dollars and silver eagles from this guy and cracked the slabs to send in to NGC and got them back in a body bag stateing they were chemically toned=stay away

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#6 Unread post by Daniel »

Thanks for the update on this service!

marks460

Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#7 Unread post by marks460 »

Daniel wrote:Thanks for the update on this service!

your welcome , i know this guy from ebay and have bought alot of coins from him in the past-his name is Jeff Martin and he lives in CO. when i first started buying his coins on the bay there were beautifully "toned" i am a fond collector of Morgan dollars (my favorite coin) and really didn't care if they were self slabbed/AT'd and self graded. I was buying very high grade coins (but AT'd) for cheap, ( $28-$35 each )but the more i talked to him and bought from him off of ebay the more baloney he was trying to feed me to buy his coins, for amuch higher prices ,that is when i stopped buying from him,he used to own Denver West Mint ,but the site is no longer up as i think he got in over his head with the people buying his coins as NT coins and then complaining about them,also i told him that his grader needs to find a differant job as some of the coins were graded at MS-65 and i would put them at AU-55 at best,(tried to hide the wear/cleaning with the toning). of course i did not buy any of those coins ,just the ones that i knew would grade very high,so in a nutshell stay away from him as he is not a good person,just thought y'all should know this. his ebay user name is -jeff4scaglia

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#8 Unread post by Daniel »

Good info and thanks for the additional info. I try to warn people about sellers like this and they're not nice people and have no business selling coins.

marks460

Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#9 Unread post by marks460 »

Daniel wrote:Good info and thanks for the additional info. I try to warn people about sellers like this and they're not nice people and have no business selling coins.

that's cool, just don't copy and paste this to the seller as a ebay message ,then he will know it came from me,and being i work in LE i do not want any flack from ebay or him

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#10 Unread post by Daniel »

I wouldn't do that, but you should never be afraid since ebay won't do anything and he's a fraud. He's ripping people off and getting away with it so if anyone, is going to anything to anyone, it would be to him. I report fools like this to ebay on a regular basis, write about them on my blog and post against them any way I can. They can't do anything about it and wouldn't since they're robbing people and they know it.

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#11 Unread post by dipper13 »

The "Denver West Mint" may end up being located in a jail cell in Colorado!

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#12 Unread post by rjp »

To bad the coin looks nice, this is a new hold to me.
Bob
:cool:

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#13 Unread post by AlanR »

Greetings fellow collectors. I found this thread via search for the Denver West Mint. I wanted to look up the company because I have just noticed a typo on the label of the GSA case that contains an 1881-S Morgan Dollar I recently bought from the Ebay seller who has been mentioned here (most of the graded coins he offers for sale appear to have been graded by Denver West Mint as was the coin I bought). I have to marvel that I've viewed the label on my Morgan Dollar's case several times, yet did not notice the typo (the graders intended to apply "PROOF LIKE" but the label reads "POOF LIKE") until I compared the coin to an 1878-S Morgan Dollar that is also in a GSA case! I was astonished that I missed this over and over again! I began to wonder what the company's policy might be on correcting the error and searched for the grading company which is how I arrived on this forum. Since the last coin I bought was from the seller mentioned here, it's prudent that I ask for more input concerning the dissatisfaction with the coins he sells because my experience with him is that he's been courteous and very much willing to communicate and answer any questions I've had and he seems to be "more than fair" with the prices for which he offers his coins, having giving me the 10% discount I requested on the coin I bought from him 2 days ago as compensation for the small crack I found at the corner of the case of the first coin I bought from him. I haven't done a lot of coin collection in recent years and have only begun to replace coins of mine that were sold off a dozen years ago and I find many of the "toner" coins the seller offers to be very attractive and my last purchase was of this type. I've got a few AT Kennedy Halves in my collection that I value (they were represented as "AT" by a different seller) and he will give me his opinion on the type of toning on various coins (Morgans and Peace Dollars) when I ask him (his user name is "libertyordeathcoins" and goes by the name of "Mike"). The seller mentioned here as misrepresenting his coins as "NT" to my knowledge has not made any claims on his Ebay listings how the coins become toned one way or the other. That's not to say that at some point he has, this is just my own experience. I'm open to new information,, and seeing as I am a customer it's important to me to be informed. I find myself scratching my head as it were, since I checked the seller store feedback and he's got 173 "Positive" feedbacks listed for the past 12 months. 0 "Negative" listed, and 0 Neutal feedback listed for the same time period. More than that, the store's feedback is not only listed as "Positive", but is listed as "5 Star" feedback for the same period. I thought it important to check the feedback scores to see what his recent customers are saying. The thread I'm responding to is more than 2 years old. In any case, I wanted to share my experience (though it is limited) with the seller who had negative feedback here from more than one user and also say that I appreciate conscientious discussion.

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#14 Unread post by AlanR »

Update: As of today the Ebay seller mentioned on this thread (jeff4scaglia) has 175 "Positive" feedback scores and also "5 Star" rating across the board for the past 12 months (I hadn't left feedback for my 2 coin purchases).

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#15 Unread post by silverforall »

By the looks of it? He's fine.. Has several toners up right now and a lot are from PCGS and NGC and a few from this DWM, and to me? All look the same, nothing funny about any of them.. Joy

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#16 Unread post by silverforall »

Daniel funny statement. Tell me and the rest of us what fraud coins you have bought from this guy, have any pictures, or at least? Proof.. All I see listed are graded coins on his site. Are we to believe that he has NGC and PCGS on the take, he's paying them off to get these fraud coins graded? Joy

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#17 Unread post by silverforall »

marks460 wrote:
Daniel wrote:Don't know who they're but the coins do look genuine. However, their toning is artificial and made to look like it's "bulls-eye" toning for better appeal. At least I am sure the Columbian Half is AT.
Hi, yes the coins are genuine ,but the toning is not as i have bought several Morgan dollars and silver eagles from this guy and cracked the slabs to send in to NGC and got them back in a body bag stateing they were chemically toned=stay away

SO MARK, HOWS THE GUITAR SALES GOING?

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#18 Unread post by silverforall »

I find this post misleading, I purchased several raw Morgans from this jeff4 guy and got all back from NGC as MS, one even came back as a star. Would anyone care to see pictures? What gives with the hate thing, and Daniel? With all these reports you say that you pass on to ebay why have they not done anything, why does this jeff4 guy have a 100% feedback rating, why is he rated as one of ebays TOP RATED SELLERS? Might it be that you don't know as much as you say you do, post without any proof past your claims with no proof, just miss-directed hate? Joy-

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#19 Unread post by mhonzell »

I looked through all of this guys toned coins and would agree with Daniel. Some of these coins, including the Morgans, are artificially toned. I do not think they all are AT based on the proper transition of colors on some.The overly purple splotch in one area and no edge transition is usually a dead give away. But, if he cannot tell the difference and sells them as toned, then he should not be selling them.
  • Circular toning spots resulting from the beading of the toning liquid that was used.
  • Colors that blend together out of sequence. With naturally toned coins, the progression is yellow then magenta (pinkish red) then cyan (blue-green).
  • Toning that appears only on the tops of the lettering and devices and not in the coin's recesses.
  • Wild "circus" colors -- on 90 percent silver coins, for instance, army green, bright pumpkin orange, and robin-egg blue.
  • The toning floats on the surface of the coin rather than having depth and being bonded to the metal.
  • The toning occurs over hairlines or other marks.
  • The toning exhibits bright "crayon" colors.
  • The toning has a yellow-brown, smoky appearance, indicating it was caused by cigarette or cigar smoke.
silverforall wrote:What gives with the hate thing, and Daniel? With all these reports you say that you pass on to ebay why have they not done anything, why does this jeff4 guy have a 100% feedback rating, why is he rated as one of ebays TOP RATED SELLERS? Might it be that you don't know as much as you say you do, post without any proof past your claims with no proof, just miss-directed hate? Joy-
It's not a "hate" thing, grow up. Someone is trying to sell fraudulent merchandise either intentionally, or without knowledge of what they are selling. Our intent is to educate the unwary from being ripped off.

Regarding eBay... they seldom take action on TOP SELLERS because that is who makes their money. They simply claim they don't know the difference. (PS. 175 positive is hardly a TOP SELLER.)


Real tone:
Note the transitions
Note the transitions
Real.JPG (37.74 KiB) Viewed 5625 times
Fake tone:
Tops of some letters are silver, areas where color has rubbed off (no transition), color is unnatural
Tops of some letters are silver, areas where color has rubbed off (no transition), color is unnatural
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#20 Unread post by Daniel »

First I want to add that 100% positive feedback is easy to obtain, most of it is pleasing ebay with their criteria for a Top Rated Seller and the rest is kissing every single buyer's butt if they complain in the least about the coin you sold them. It's all psychology when it comes to buyers. You can tell buyers that you didn't know and how sorry you were and that you will be more careful next time, blah, blah, blah and so on and so forth; and do this to make sure they leave you enough stars and raving feedback for your wonderful personality.

A purchase is more about how satisfied the customer is than how great the product is; I grew up in retail and you can sell plastic turds to happy customers if you just please the customer. These customers will come back to you because they think you're genuine. So the feedback means little to me in this case and there's two more reasons why.

1. The sellers BUYING feedback is private so there's something to hide here, especially when it's obvious some of the sellers are coin sellers. So we can't see if the coins were possibly bought of ebay as original and then artificially toned by this seller and being resold. Usually sellers like this just have two ebay accounts, one for buying and one for selling so they don't get caught.

2. The seller might have some NGC and PCGS toned coins for sell but they're still selling raw AT coins and coins in their own private DWM holders which is a self slabbing method of making the coins appear to be worth more than they are.

Honestly, if you think this seller's raw coins or DWM slabbed coins are naturally toned then you need to be schooled on natural toning. The images are extremely poor to hide details of the toning, but that will never fool an experienced eye. I can tell by the patterns of toning that they're not naturally toned. Mhonzell made factual and accurate observations of these coins and I can see and agree with what he listed. It's actually a science so it's either one way or no way.

Furthermore the seller has a fake Trade Dollar up for sell, don't care what the auction states, it can still be purchased for $999 and that violates ebay policy. Also DWM is not a legitimate grading service, this slabbing services has no website, return policies, and the only mentions of this company online is a couple of forums warning against them. lol. The description in this auction is extremely goofy to say the least. I reported that auction, and you're not allowed to mention DWM or any other fake grading service in an ebay auction.

One other thing to note, the seller can take better images of coins, and I see he has done this on the legitimate grading company images, but "manipulated" the artificially toned auction images. So silverforall you must be this seller yourself, a family member or friend if you still insist on defending this seller, either that or you really don't know any better and have a lot to learn about coins and toning.

P.S. I never claimed to buy any coins from this seller, so reread my posts. I would never buy from this seller, don't need to to prove he's a fraud.

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#21 Unread post by silverforall »

Daniel, its Joyce again "sliver for all"
Regarding your post "It's not a "hate" thing. Someone is trying to sell fraudulent merchandise either intentionally, or without knowledge of what they are selling. Our intent is to educate the unwary from being ripped off'
And......... "(PS. 175 positive is hardly a TOP SELLER.)"

I want to make sure we are talking about the same guy here. The one I'm talking about has the user name of jeff4scaglia.. I looked in to his site just now because I've got my eye on one of his toners, ebay item # 361444394042, what a beauty.. But back to this jeff4 guy again. Are we talking about the same guy? His home page shows hes been on ebay since 2005, has a 100% feedback rating with over 3000 deals and has that "Top Rated Plus" badge. I do see that most of his coins are toners just like eternitycoin & john-strategies who I've also purchased from in the past. I do believe that John does something to his photo's though to make the coin look somehow better, and for me? I'm a 3rd generation collector, started with my grandfather and know a bit more than most I would hope. I can at least tell if a coin was roughly cleaned and can get close to giving it a grade, but past that? I go to my local coin shop guy for assistance.. I'm glad to hear you say that its NOT a hate thing, that's not how a board should be handled, and as far as me growing up? You would be shocked to find out just how old I am, and no! I'm not going to tell ya! Joyce

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#22 Unread post by Daniel »

You're mixing people up. I didn't use the phrase like "grow up". I also know how a board should be conducted, I created and founded this board to warn collectors about these types of sellers. I am a third generation dealer and started with my grandpa, and I have studied this stuff for years and have even have engineering college credits. I don't just look at images and say AT or NT, I look at the patterns and toning stages as well as reflective factors.

jeff4 is not an ebay id with that much feedback. If you want to post links to the sellers then maybe we can know just who you're referring to or not.

I do know that the auction id you posted is an auction by the guy I was referring to in my previous post. The NGC coin is NT, but his raw coins are not.

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#23 Unread post by silverforall »

Sorry about the goof up, another member dinged me with the "grow-up"... How childish . So your family has been at this for a while too. Good for you! Understood on all the above.. Joyce

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Re: DWM- (Denver West Mint)

#24 Unread post by Daniel »

All members of this board are here to protect ALL collectors and we have decades of experience between us, we're also nice and decent folk who would never mud sling without first knowing our facts and what we're talking about.

We don't pride ourselves in debasing people unless they pride themselves on ripping people off and or selling coins for something they're not.

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