Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

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Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#1 Unread post by inscriptor » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:16 am

Hey everyone,

If you collect coins from all over the world, you might have been facing difficulties while identifying the minting year. For exanple, coins from Israel, Thailand, (Old) China, Japan, Nepal, Tibet, Ethiopia, numerous arab countries etc not only have date inscriptions in local languages, but also those countries have different (from Gregorian) chronological systems.

So, how do you identify the date?

:eureka: I want you to check out my awesome online date converter called Creounity Time Machine. For English language, its homepage is http://creounity.com/apps/time_machine/ ... tm&lang=en. It covers 25 chronological systems and features both direct and reverse conversion modes.

Converters are at the left side, and to the right you'll see tabs with descriptions and images of coin samples for this or that system.

I'd love to see your comments and listen to your feedback :)



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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#2 Unread post by mhonzell » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:57 am

Thanks!
Now if it could only read them.
The coins I collect, typically do not have dates on them and have to be identified by ruler's profile, words on the coin, shape, thickness, weight, etc. Many times in foreign languages.

For instance... I have a Chinese Spade coin that I believe says Ta-Pu-Huang-Chien (Grand coin, 1000 "units"). That puts it under Emperor Wang Mang (Hsin dynasty.) And minting of this coin would have been 14 AD. It's not super rare, but more than the version without a line above the top of the hole. And, it displays really nice. (All characters readable, no real damage, so F to VF.) Of bigger interest is the rice paper sign behind the coin. Still looking for an interpretation of this cursive Chinese.)
Japanese Spade coin.jpg
Or this Indian coin:
Indian states, Kuchuwan (feudatory of Jodhpur), in name of Shah Alam II (1759-1806), rupee, 1203 H (1789 by Lunar Hejira) [just below centre on obverse, right image], year 31 (year of emperor's reign) [bottom of reverse, left image], KM C 17
(Your link got me from "year 31" to 1789. Thanks!)
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Last edited by mhonzell on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#3 Unread post by inscriptor » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:11 am

Hmm, it appears to me that, if 31 is the ordinal number of ruler's reign, the actual year of minting is 1203+31-1 = 1233 AH = 1818 AD. But it cannot be so since Shah's life was between 1759 and 1806.

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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#4 Unread post by mhonzell » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:16 am

Interesting catch.
I can definitely see the 1203 on the obverse and the 31 on the reverse. (Using your site to read the numerals.)

While the script is Arabic (Iran, Bangladesh, Lunar Hejira), the date system may have had an Indian twist (Delhi).

Shah Alam II started his reign in December 1759. I add 31 (-1) years to this date to get 1789.

Or, using only the 1203 on the obverse and converting it using the Lunar Hejira, I get 1789.

Maybe the year of reign is not added to the 1203 in this case.

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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#5 Unread post by PALH1 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:09 pm

since i have preached that "there are no stupid questions", i, um,........
i admit 101% that i really know NOTHING about these ancients, find then extremely fascinating, wish i learned about these, have a question:
since these would be considered currency(?), & must have have a 'value'(?) of some sort BACK THEN, what would they be used for??....good & services?....if so, how would one 'determine the value' of such goods or services these were 'used to pay for'?...did these even have a 'determined set value' for the all the differing coins/lumps of metal/ingots?

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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#6 Unread post by inscriptor » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:17 pm

Those types of coins have had different weight, thickness and diameter, so this is how people could distinguish between them.

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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#7 Unread post by mhonzell » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:39 pm

The Chinese Spade coin was not very standardized in weight, or size. The text on the coins states it's value, as ours do today. So, it was not bullion. It was an actual coin used in the trade/barter of materials. It is believed the shape is related to it's original use, trading for farm implements. Early versions had a hollow neck, no hole and a stronger spade appearance to the blade. Later, it was more commonly used for bolts of cloth and can be found as a "shirt" or "pants" coin.

The oldest renditions pre-date most Greek coins, going as far back as 1200 BC. But, an emperor in 220 BC, in an attempt to simplify the Chinese language, "standardized" the text and destroyed most older documents. No one could read them anymore. So, once you get before 220 BC, it gets a bit rough. In 147 AD, someone actually made the Chinese rendition of the Rosetta Stone and brought a lot of these materials back to life. Unfortunately, from about 600-900AD, a lot of forgeries were made. (And, today...)

I only have one. It's for display only, as it is has an interesting story.
And, the likelihood it's a fake... who knows. Who am I going to get to certify it? lol:
And, the only "slab" I want it in is the one it is currently displayed in. (The picture frame.)

(As I said, not very rare... probably worth about $30-$50, if real.) But, the sign behind it... Friend of mine said this was standard when given as a gift to write a note or poem and sign it with a seal (red.) And, if the text indicates it to be a gift, then it moves out of the fake territory (for me.) I'll have to take it apart and photo the cloth/paper. I really need it interpreted. (For all I know, it's a tourist token made in 2014 and the note says "Thanks for visiting Chengde Yuan.")
----
The Indian coin is more obviously a true coin. So, I'll assume you were asking about the spade.
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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#8 Unread post by inscriptor » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:51 pm

Orient people were quite practical guys though. The first thing to do - and most important - was to stay alive, and for that they had to grow stuff to eat. A real spade was ok for that, unlike smth made even from gold.

Gold had become that valuable later, I believe.

P.S.: I am sorry if my English is not good enough - I am not American :)

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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#9 Unread post by mhonzell » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:05 pm

Exactly, inscriptor!
Wang Mang was a rebel that broke the empire. Once overthrown, the empire was reunified and the coins became round... called cash coins. (with round or square holes in the center.)

Wang made the last of the spade coins.

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Re: Creounity Time Machine — online coin date converter

#10 Unread post by PALH1 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:08 pm

ty guyz,
i have always found ancient 'coins' interesting....
like inscriptor said, food & shelter....the raw basics, just to survive. thinking about 'money'....you are really trading 1 for the other.....when you 'buy' something. you give someone $x, you get 'abc' in return,....you 'traded' your coin(s) for the 'abc'. outside of the obvious,...food, shelter, clothing, a tool, possibly a 'work animal', what did you NEED TO 'buy'?

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