1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

Post, ask questions and discuss World and Ancient Coin topics.

Moderator: Daniel

Forum rules
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.

1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.

2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.

3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.

4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.

5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.

6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.

7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
Post Reply
Message
Author
bobbybrown
Coining Around
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:53 pm

1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#1 Unread post by bobbybrown »

This is a coin I picked up recently - I can't find a match anywhere online when researching it. Initially, it looks like an 1809 Nassau Kreuzer. The REV is KM#15 from what I can tell, but the OBV is puzzling me. It's got a Nassau shield, but it's not what's listed for the KM#15 variety or any other variety listed in Krause. The shield is pointed at the bottom with no lettering underneath it, with very narrow pointed tops on the shield as well. Furthermore, the lettering is "HERZ NASSAU SCHEIDEMUNZ", not the lettering that is listed for any of the Nassau Kreutzer varieties. Can anyone please help me make sense of this. Is it a mule or a pattern?
Attachments
1809 Nassau Kreuzer Mule or Pattern
1809 Nassau Kreuzer Mule or Pattern

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2734
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#2 Unread post by mhonzell »

1809 Germany Herz Nassau Scheidemunz 1 Kreuzer
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

bobbybrown
Coining Around
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#3 Unread post by bobbybrown »

Thank you, mhonzell. Is this variety rare, or as common as the Krause-listed types? Thanks again!

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2734
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#4 Unread post by mhonzell »

This is a variant of the 1st Duke Frederick Augustus coin made from 1809-1813. The actual mintage is unknown. There were 130k of the 1813 version made. But, they only bear the date 1809, 1810, or 1813.
I was struggling with the KM#, which is KM#15.
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

bobbybrown
Coining Around
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#5 Unread post by bobbybrown »

Thanks again, mhonzell. Just to make sure I understand - you are saying this coin is KM# 15 type, even though the shield side does not match what's listed in Krause/NGC for KM#15? The denomination side matches, but the shield side is different (both the shield and the lettering). Are you saying that what I have is a known/common variant of what's listed in the catalog as KM# 15? Thanks again for the help.

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2734
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#6 Unread post by mhonzell »

I know I'm going back and forth, but neither the KM10 or KM15 truly match. The KM10 is probably closer, but it doesn't have the sharp lower point on the shield either.

Looking at a number of examples, there is large variation for the shield side.

On the 1809 KM10, Nassau is abbreviated, which rules it out for me.

On the KM15, the 1809 version, the shield is more correct, but positioned differently and it spells Nassau as Nassauische.

I need to find an 1808 to see if you indeed have a mule.
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

User avatar
mhonzell
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2734
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#7 Unread post by mhonzell »

Have you considered that the 09 in the date doesn't look right?
Civil War Tokens
Morgan Dollars
Ancient Coins

User avatar
Paul
Master Die Variety Examiner
Master Die Variety Examiner
Posts: 18833
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Has thanked: 897 times
Been thanked: 3272 times

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#8 Unread post by Paul »

mhonzell wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:17 pm Have you considered that the 09 in the date doesn't look right?
Hmmmmmmmm,
good eye M.

whistling2:
i'm gonna wait for a final answer here ??
C.O.N.E.C.A. Wi State Rep
Fly-In Club Wi State Rep

bobbybrown
Coining Around
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: 1809 nassau kreuzer pattern? mule? Help Please.

#9 Unread post by bobbybrown »

yeah, I took another look at that 9, and some other pieces on the web look the same, it's not an overdate or anything such, but I agree, some other pics on the web show the 9 as curved in a different way...

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post