9/11/13 Coin Grading Contest Ended / Winners Announced

[Paul]

Let me first thank all participants.
I was kinda amazed that with 1085 hits, there were only 13 entries.

Second, I made this 'post' to stress a very important point..."Grading".
I see so many asking, "what does my coin grade"?..."what's the 'grade' of my coin"?
Then, collectors are looking at their 'price guide' for a 'dollar value'.
This would take me a very long time to explain.....so, as a shortcut, "BUY THE COIN, NOT THE SLAB".
They can put ANYTHING they want on a 'Label'....you MUST 'LOOK' AT THE COIN, the actual lump of metal inside.....the 'Slab' is only a C.O.A.

Anywhoo, this coin was "Graded" a VF30.
Winner: 2centsal, with first grade of XF45 :trophy:
Second: Sidnguy, with second grade of XF45 :yourock:
Third: mhonzell, with the third grade of XF45 :thumbsup:

Congrats to you three. Please PM me with the address I should send your coin to.

[mhonzell]

First of all, a big Thank You for the contest!!

Secondly, I mostly collect Indian Head Cents and just a few Flying Eagles. I started out with raw coins, which forced me to get a grip on photo/visual grading of these two types. As such, I felt pretty confident about giving this coin an XF45. So, I am shocked to see a VF30 on this coin.

[Paul]

Just for giggles.....'Grade' here?
:confused:

[Daniel]

Paul, I want to thank you for hosting this contest! I also want to congrats the winners, I wouldn't have guess VF30 either, dig that.

Anyway, thee cent piece is a weak strike that should grade AU50. I think grading services forget that there's three sides to a coin and when the strike is weak then they must closely examine the rim top and side. I don't see a lot of marks or wear on the rim which was designed to wear first and help protect the inner devices from wearing first, thus prolonging the life span of a coin.

I would be surprised it was graded lower, as I am with the flying eagle.

[mhonzell]

Now, that's a mixture of key details:
Hair details just above brow put this as Extra Fine (45). The wreath on the back is superb (AU58), but the lines on the III are worn down to Good to Very Good(6). The fields on the obverse look Very Fine to Extra Fine (35), the reverse is higher: Extra Fine to AU(45).

I can't really tell in the photo if luster is present.

So, if I had to put a grade on it: XF40. <--- whistling2:
TPGs give some leniency on older coins (45), but the wear on the "III" is probably the biggest distractor (35).

Was that vague enough?

[Daniel]

There's wear but you must consider how much is struck weak, the coin has a weak strike so it makes the high points look as if they have more wear.

Think of the hair above the ear and the breast feathers on a Morgan Dollar, no way this three cent piece has that much wear in the middle but the outer devices don't have any if very little wear.

[marks460]

Congrats to the 3 winners on this coin contest-but a VF30? i think the guys/girls at NGC need to get their eyes checked this coin has way too many fine details to grade that low at least in my opinon,but anyway i always say buy the coin and not the salb too-as the slab is only someone's opinion-thanks again for another fun contest- widegrin

[Paul]

This one I gotta add some 'input' on here.

This exact 3CN (three cent nickel) I used as a 'test piece' in my submissions.....to find out 'what that "grader" knew/did not know'.

I used this coin, now 'almost properly graded' 1 tic low, a 1864 MS64RB 2CP (two cent piece), a 1895 MS63RB IHC (indian head cent), & a 1977 MS WQ (washington quarter).

I cracked them out for each submission. The way they came back each time was ALL OVER THE BOARD.

STUPID...really. But showed me 'what' that "Grader", liked & dis-liked.......or just how much they really had NO IDEA OF WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

This coin was 'graded' 3 times prior to the 'slab' it's in now. AG3, VF35, & VF30.

It correctly 'grades' a MS63, due to the slight lack of luster on the obverse, & ever-so-slight off color.

The last submit this went in on, I demanded a 'senior grader', as I had a bunch of 'mid-grade', 77 coins, that I needed done properly for a friend.



OK.....first, this is a RARE MPD (mis-placed date).

The obverse die is a solid Stage A sharp hit. The 'flattening' on the hair behind the ear, is a moderate/heavy album/flip friction. I see no significant plugging for these 'softer metal' coinage on this one.

The reverse is a very late, terminal die state (stg. d). The center/center west of the coin shows EXTREME fracture (die wear).....should have been changed out by now.....

This coin was, m-a-y-b-e, once around the block at most.

What makes this exact one so valuable, more than other coins with much better details, is that this pairing stayed in production for this long, & IS NOT HEAVILY CLASHED (clashed 3CN's were VERY COMMON). With the very noticeable MPD, & the real crappy completely worn out reverse die,....that either they just 'missed it', or were trying to 'squeeze out a few more'.

This is one of those 'discovery' ones I have.

5 different attributers have looked at it....NONE could 'match it up' with any 'known cataloged' variety.

[Daniel]

I grade based on the luster of the high points, important to see if it's missing luster, flatness from being stored or if it's weakly struck. You got me again with these gray scale images, they make the high points look like they have some wear. I wanted to go higher but just couldn't do it based on the images.

[Paul]

Yea, all those pics were with my first beginner scope quite awhile ago.
I never re-imaged it. hugeeyes
Figuring I was not going to sell it.....

[2centsal]

:greatfind: I didn't see the answer to the 3CN but I would of graded it a MS-60 , so I was close anyway.
I also want to Thank Paul for the Contest. widegrin I was torn between grading the FE either a XF-45 or XF-40, but I never thought it would be lower than a XF-40 . I also want to Thank everyone that participated and would like to see more than the same people doing Contests. I look at it as a " Pay it Forward " concept. So, seeing that October is coming up, if you would like to do a Contest but are too shy or don't know how to go about it then let me know. I will also be willing to DONATE a couple Coins of my own . Just send me a PM and we can get started on an Idea in the next couple weeks.
Lastly, Congrat's to all the WINNERS ! :thumbsup:

Thanks and as always, Take Care. Sal

[mhonzell]

Think of the hair above the ear and the breast feathers on a Morgan Dollar, no way this three cent piece has that much wear in the middle but the outer devices don't have any if very little wear.

Well that summed up my confusion. I saw "wear" in the middle and beautiful coin elsewhere. Seeing as I haven't got a single silver dollar, I wouldn't know much about Morgans. But, those three III's don't show to me as weak strike. There's no lines in the "worn" areas (even light ones) and the third I is almost completely untouched.

So,, you sucked me in, but knowing nothing on this one, I went by photogrades (on this site no less) and gave it a shot. As I stated, I can't see luster in photos either, which would have given it another 10 points making my guess AU55. A little closer. Maybe that's what the TPG grader did! (Compared to photos.)

Oh well. Learned about 3 cents of information more than I had. Next!

[Paul]

Sal,
Your 'Label' is a slip of paper inside the slab with some ink on it.
First pic is of the 'wood-grain' tone picked up by the album it was in..
It's actually an uncirculated coin. I bought this coin from a over-the-road trucker,...it was in a album he had in his cab. You can see the protected reverse is perfect. The left wing & breast show 'album friction' from the 'vibration' of rubbing against the adjacent page. EASY TO SEE UNDER A SCOPE.
Look at the 'comp' image.
The THIRD image, is a E/MDS DDO FS-101, that I SOLD ON EBAYto a "large volume" coin submitter. I watched his EBAY accounts, all 9 of them. When I had it, the 'label' had 'damaged/improperly cleaned'. 5 weeks later, POOF! Fully "Graded".

[Daniel]

Think of the hair above the ear and the breast feathers on a Morgan Dollar, no way this three cent piece has that much wear in the middle but the outer devices don't have any if very little wear.

Well that summed up my confusion. I saw "wear" in the middle and beautiful coin elsewhere. Seeing as I haven't got a single silver dollar, I wouldn't know much about Morgans. But, those three III's don't show to me as weak strike. There's no lines in the "worn" areas (even light ones) and the third I is almost completely untouched.

So,, you sucked me in, but knowing nothing on this one, I went by photogrades (on this site no less) and gave it a shot. As I stated, I can't see luster in photos either, which would have given it another 10 points making my guess AU55. A little closer. Maybe that's what the TPG grader did! (Compared to photos.)

Oh well. Learned about 3 cents of information more than I had. Next!

That's the key to grading a coin with a weak strike, it's about striking pressure, and details will be missing on the high points, and why there's no evidence of lines for the most part, they just didn't get struck fully.

The area of weakness appears distinct, at least to my eyes, that have seen more coins than I can count. It almost looks rounded or domed or even a little wavy, some might say mushy, but that depends on how weak the strike. Some minor weakness is difficult to discern from circulation wear, so it takes some practice.

Yeah, my photograde is for coins with normal striking pressure. I have thought about adding something about weak strikes and grading for each series. It's important for grading, but very difficult for most to get a handle on just images and explanations alone.

I do have an article on Morgan Dollars AU58 verses MS60 and that might shed some light on the subject http://coinauctionshelp.com/gradingau58 ... llars.html

[jrkicc1]

I agree with you it makes you wonder if some of these graders need their eyes checked. Unfortunately, they are professional and a legitmate auction house would stick to what they say.

John

[Daniel]

I agree with you it makes you wonder if some of these graders need their eyes checked. Unfortunately, they are professional and a legitmate auction house would stick to what they say.

John

Yeah, they have to, for the sake of profit or :s in numismatics.

[mhonzell]

As usual, another great learning thread. Thanks all of you!

[Daniel]

I am just glad that it's helping other members. I appreciate you posting this since it's important to know that our efforts do help. We need more members like yourself.

[Paul]

Coins shipped today guys