Taking images through a plastic holder

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Taking images through a plastic holder

#1 Unread post by Daniel »

I have been practicing with my new toy and wanted to take clear and images though a plastic holder. You can see the small scratches on the plastic, so they're not on the coin, it's a nice 2004 SAE.
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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#2 Unread post by dipper13 »

Probably because of the resolution and lens quality, I notice that Pauls' images make it easy to detect scratches. That comes with having so high end a camera/scope! His are tops.

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#3 Unread post by Daniel »

dipper13 wrote:Probably because of the resolution and lens quality, I notice that Pauls' images make it easy to detect scratches. That comes with having so high end a camera/scope! His are tops.
I don't understand? I was just pointing out that the scratches were on the plastic.

I am using a Canon Rebel T3i with the 55mm lens, and in 100% manual mode, and this is the best image it will take, but don't know of any camera that will ignore scratches in plastic no matter how advanced the camera or lens. I will say, keeping a camera completely still during macro shots is the most important aspect of taking clear images. I was amazed at how much camera shake I created with this new camera.

I need to lay off the coffee lol:

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#4 Unread post by Paul »

Don't forget the 'light source direction', 'angle', & most important, the 'depth of field'.
Being able to focus just on the 'surface' of the coin, with the 'depth' of 'focal length', the smaller the better, you can 'focus past' the crummy slab....you will still pick up marks on the slab, but not as prominent. See the 'long tube' on the top of my setup under the imaging head, & the extension underneath above the ring light? This makes my 'focal depth' about .05mm
My focal depth length is so minimal, it makes 'focusing VERY difficult'', but everything else is GREATLY minimized.
This is the same principal telescopes use.
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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#5 Unread post by Daniel »

Again, I appreciate the advice, but I was merely pointing out that you can see the marks on the slab and they're not on the coin. I just took this image and one behind the plastic today. You can minimize the marks with depth of field and use a light angle that is straight onto the slab, I do understand that. I just wanted to see how well it looked on the forum as I imaged it. Like I said, I am using all manual focus and settings. I do not like most camera's automatic features, plus I am shooting without a macro lens, and automatic settings and AF will not allow me to take these images.

I can't wait until my macro lens comes in. I do appreciate you tips Paul, but I do understand all of this. I actually have college credit on 35mm photography and got A's, not that that makes me an expert since experience with some advice is the best teacher. I have took images with point and shoot cameras for so long that I am just excited about experimenting with my new SLRS.

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#6 Unread post by Paul »

Do you have a mini tri-pod?
Mines so sensitive, that when the entrance door to my building, just below me, closes, the small vibration effects the image.
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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#7 Unread post by Daniel »

I don't use tripods unless I am outside. As you said even slight vibrations can cause image shake, tripods are spindly with legs that converse into a focal point, so that all the vibrations travel directly to the camera. I am using a solid cabinet, on carpet, with concrete underneath. Any vibration traveling through the concrete is dispersed by the carpet. I also don't shoot live and use a 2 second shot window so I am not touching the camera. I am getting a remote so wont have to deal with that much longer.

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#8 Unread post by 2centsal »

I think that you see more and more people using the Point and Shoot Camera's more often since technology has advanced. I think unless your more of a Professional Photographer then it's more important to have one like yours. My Uncle has been into Photography since I can remember and he uses both types. When he shoots closer pictures I see him using his High-end Point and Shoot but when he takes Pictures of Sports like the College games, he uses his Manual -Type with large sized lenses . He can take Pictures from several hundred feet away and it looks like he's really close up. They even have Cell Phone Camera's today with 20 megapixels . That's good for a cell phone. I think it's the new I-phone that's been advertised on a Commercial of a women taking a Pic of a Band, have you seen it ?
The problem many people have is taking Pictures of objects closer than 26 inches. My cheap Kodak Easyshare has a feature to shoot closer than that range. I also use this trick where I put my loop lens in front of my Camera Lens and it works Great !
With the Manual ones, a lot of people feel their too complicated . It's good you took classes in School because I'm sure there's a huge learning curve. That's why I would rather buy a Scope because I don't take regular pictures much, mostly just of Coins .

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#9 Unread post by Daniel »

I t was over 20 years ago that I took them classes and believe me, I thought I had forgotten all that I learned, but once I started playing around with the camera and realized I could use it all manual, then all of it started coming back. Also, well over 11 years photographing coins for ebay sure helped a lot since I learned to take some decent images with the Sony PowerShot.

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#10 Unread post by mhonzell »

While I'm all for hiding the scratches in my personal log of my coins, I prefer to see them when posted publicly. Scratches that are "diminished" by photography tricks become difficult to determine if there is a problem with the coin. See photo below. This is taken with the light source directly above (see the reflection?) to minimize scratch reflectivity and shadow. But, it makes the area on the coin to the left of the bust appear to have been "cleaned", which is not the case. Those "cleaning" lines are all on the plastic. Without additional photos, I would never consider this coin as a keeper.

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#11 Unread post by Daniel »

I do see what you're saying about the coin's details, but this makes it look more proof like than cleaned, at least to me. Publicly you should never hide the marks on a coin, if you plan on selling it. However, I do see some collectors who can't discern a scratch in the plastic verses a scratch on the coin.

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#12 Unread post by mhonzell »

To emphasize Daniels comment... "However, I do see some collectors who can't discern a scratch in the plastic verses a scratch on the coin."
Look at the photo below. Is the area between the '7' and '0' (date) on the coin or on the plastic? Maybe it's easy to tell because the photo is so large. But, I find the natural state of the coin can lead one to think the mark is on the coin. (Not one of my better coins.) Hmm... giving me an idea for a contest.

Image

PS. My photo "rig" is a $26 USB Digital Microscope that sits perched on an empty CD case (100 pk) with a desktop magnifying glass/flourescent ring shining on the slab. I turn on the rooms incandescent light to restore the copper color to the coin which tends to disappear if I don't. I only mention this to show that for home use, you can go pretty cheap and still get good results.
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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#13 Unread post by Daniel »

It looks like a holder scratch since it's lighter than it would be if it was on the coin. BU coins are more difficult to discern since they're white and so are the plastic scratches. What's the blob in between the 7 and the 0?

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#14 Unread post by mhonzell »

That 'blob' is a holder scratch. But, it's copper-colored due to the incandescent lighting and back scatter. If the photo is reduced to "normal" eBay display size, it looks like a potential "cleaning" scratch on the coin. The type of scratch made with sharp pointy instruments. But, the coin is graded, so it couldn't possibly be that...

Image

As you state, silver type coins present their own unique issues. Especially as the grade goes up.
I'm lousy at silver coin photos since my "setup" is for copper coins. But, here's an example on your comment:

Image

It is difficult to tell by photo if the scratch in the lower right is on the coin or on the plastic, but it is on the plastic. The "smoke trails" in the upper left are actually a reflection on the plastic. The specks in the lower right are paper dust on the outside of the plastic. I don't envy those taking photos of silver coins.
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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#15 Unread post by mhonzell »

Instead of trying to get around the scratches with photography, try prepping the slab:

This was from an article I printed out once and it works very well, but I don't use it much since I don't take high quality photos for my records.
===
Most scratches can be rubbed off of a slab with a little work. I use automobile rubbing compound (available at most auto supply stores). It’s a nice fine polishing agent intended to take hairlines off of car paint. I have found that it will take off scratches on plastic pretty well too. I have heard of using Brasso™ and plastic polish also. The shinier the slab, the less glare you’ll get on your images.

When polishing slabs you need to be careful of the direction in which you polish. Polishes will leave very fine hairlines on the plastic that will not
normally be visible when shooting images except when your light is at 90 degrees to the hairlines. I alleviate this problem by polishing in one direction.
If I want to light a coin from 10 and 2 o’clock, I will polish the slab from 6 to 12 o’clock (fig.9). Always polish toward the anticipated light source.
===
Hope you find this useful.
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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#16 Unread post by Daniel »

Yeah, thanks for posting. I would point out that there's a slab scratch remover I saw somewhere and since you posted this I remembered it. I never thought of using polishing compounds used on cars. I thought the grit would be too large. I do have some of the scratch out that feels smooth enough.

I found it at ebay and it's called slab renew. I am sure there's cheaper alternatives but this doesn't require any jeweler's rouge, and doesn't require a guess. It's an actual plastic polish.

Slab Renew at ebay

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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#17 Unread post by mhonzell »

I use Kit Scratch Out. ( Plastic polish. ) Sold at Wal-mart for a whopping $3, at Ace Hardware for $5.
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Re: Taking images through a plastic holder

#18 Unread post by Daniel »

I think this should be bumped as a reminder to members and if anyone might want to add more tips.

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