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periklis
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ERRORS

#1 Unread post by periklis »

Hello everybody from Athens, Greece!
Can you help me with some coins ?


1. Quarter 1971:
What is this ?
But why is red ?


Image

Image

Image

Image



2. Cent 1984:
Why this coin is like that ?
And what means that ?

Image

Image
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#2 Unread post by Daniel »

Welcome to the forum! It appears that the red area is a foreign substance like nail polish or paint. The 1984 cent is called a bubbled lamination and is common for Lincoln Cents. Neither add an extra value to the coins, but if you have more please post them.

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Re: ERRORS

#3 Unread post by periklis »

Thank you very much for the answer!
You forgive me for my errors but use automatic translation because I do not speak English. :oops:

Daniel wrote:..It appears that the red area is a foreign substance like nail polish or paint..
No it is not. Is like the original color of copper. Does not exist something else on metal. the coin was in plastic album for a lot of years and had touched green mould (specifically in these points). After cleaning with alcohol and soda, the green became red... :dunno And the coin is like this that you say "lamination peel" (I opened a lot of pages and I saw a lot of photographs that are precisely same with this - you can see this clearly in the fourth photograph).
Daniel wrote:..The 1984 cent is called a bubbled lamination and is common for Lincoln Cents. Neither add an extra value to the coins..
This is surprise for me, but sure you know better, so ok.

I have and some other currencies to show you which I will go up later their photographs.
Thank you very much!
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#4 Unread post by periklis »

Exist some does error in them or no?



1941:

Image



1969-S:

Image

Image



1977-D:

Image



2006:

Image

Image

Image
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#5 Unread post by Daniel »

periklis wrote:Thank you very much for the answer!
You forgive me for my errors but use automatic translation because I do not speak English. :oops:

Daniel wrote:..It appears that the red area is a foreign substance like nail polish or paint..
No it is not. Is like the original color of copper. Does not exist something else on metal. the coin was in plastic album for a lot of years and had touched green mould (specifically in these points). After cleaning with alcohol and soda, the green became red... :dunno And the coin is like this that you say "lamination peel" (I opened a lot of pages and I saw a lot of photographs that are precisely same with this - you can see this clearly in the fourth photograph).
Daniel wrote:..The 1984 cent is called a bubbled lamination and is common for Lincoln Cents. Neither add an extra value to the coins..
This is surprise for me, but sure you know better, so ok.

I have and some other currencies to show you which I will go up later their photographs.
Thank you very much!
I looked at the quarter again, I didn't notice how the E is different, and I must digress. It could be a intact lamination and the green would have been the copper's reaction to oxygen. Copper is one of the most reactive metals.

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Re: ERRORS

#6 Unread post by Daniel »

The 1941 appears to be caused by an abraided die and this is commonly found with Lincoln Cents.

The 1969-S is difficult to see, but it could have been caused by a clogged die, contact mark or filled die.

I need a better picture of the 1977-D, but from what I seee, this might have been caused by a counting machine.

The 2006-P is the most interesting. I can't be 100% on what caused this to happen. It appears it's missing the smoothness of its' surface. However, there could have been something wrong with the surface of the die. It could have had a thin film of greese on most of it's surface. I just can't be sure on this one.

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Re: ERRORS

#7 Unread post by periklis »

New pictures for 25c - 2006-P :


04.jpg
08.jpg
09.jpg

??????????????
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#8 Unread post by periklis »

New pictures for 25c - 1971-D :

DSCN0025.JPG
DSCN0024.JPG
13.jpg
DSCN0016.JPG
DSCN0018.JPG
DSCN0020.JPG
DSCN0022.JPG


?????????????????????????????
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#9 Unread post by Daniel »

Is the edge bulged out a little? If so then I would think it was hit by something and that would be post mint damage.

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Re: ERRORS

#10 Unread post by periklis »

I don't understand what you are saying, sorry... :dunno
Tried to write it in another way and perhaps understand.
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#11 Unread post by Daniel »

Where the copper is showing does the edge of the coin looked pushed out or irregular? It looks that way on the quarter image.

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Re: ERRORS

#12 Unread post by periklis »

DSCN0021.JPG
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#13 Unread post by periklis »

i think that this is lamination error or something like that.
About the color, i dont know.
periklis wrote:...Is like the original color of copper. Does not exist something else on metal. the coin was in plastic album for a lot of years and had touched green mould (specifically in these points). After cleaning with alcohol and soda, the green became red...
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#14 Unread post by Daniel »

It's not a lamination error. If the edge is humped out a little then this is a hard hit and would be PMD. Copper corrodes to green and will become red or even pink when cleaned.

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Re: ERRORS

#15 Unread post by periklis »

Wait a little because I got confused... :confused:
The coin (25c) has the same error like next photos, plus the red color.
How is called this error? Is not a lamination error?

LikrThat_50.jpg
LikrThat_54.jpg
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Re: ERRORS

#16 Unread post by Daniel »

This second coin is a lamination but the quarter is clad and a lamination does not reveal the core which is copper clad in the nickel. It appears the nickel layer is damaged and this revealed the copper core. So that's not a lamination on the quarter.

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Re: ERRORS

#17 Unread post by periklis »

Aaaaaaaaa ! Okay, understood. :thumbsup:
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Re: ERRORS

#18 Unread post by periklis »

Daniel, THANK YOU !


:thumbsup:
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Re: ERRORS

#19 Unread post by Daniel »

You're welcome.

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Re: ERRORS

#20 Unread post by periklis »

Daniel wrote:This second coin is a lamination but the quarter is clad and a lamination does not reveal the core which is copper clad in the nickel. It appears the nickel layer is damaged and this revealed the copper core. So that's not a lamination on the quarter.
Look this: http://www.error-ref.com/copper_foil_re ... uck-in_e3/
Is like that ?
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#21 Unread post by Daniel »

A nickel is not clad but a solid coin, your quarter is clad and it would not show the copper core if it was a lamination. Plus the nickel is struck through copper.

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Re: ERRORS

#22 Unread post by periklis »

Can you give me a link at error-ref.com or somewhere else that shows this error (or similar) with photos;
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Re: ERRORS

#23 Unread post by Daniel »

Which coin? I am not seeing an error on the quarter so there's not going to be a similar image. You can look through Heritage Coin Auctions.

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Re: ERRORS

#24 Unread post by periklis »

Daniel wrote:...I am not seeing an error on the quarter...
Ok, now you 'll see: widegrin
DSCN0001.JPG
Last edited by periklis on Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ERRORS

#25 Unread post by periklis »

New photos:
DSCN0009.JPG
DSCN0010.JPG
SCN0012.JPG
SCN0003.JPG
SCN0004.JPG
SCN0015.JPG
SCN0017.JPG
DSCN0014.JPG
DSCN0015.JPG
DSCN0016.JPG
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#26 Unread post by periklis »

I think that the coin has 3 or 4 errors:

- RPM
- DDR
- Clashed Dies
- and the "lamination" problem (in the end, i dont know what is this) :sos:

Look CAREFULLY the pictures and tell me (In the last photo with D, you can see that is DD=RPM). :dunno

DSCN0022_B.JPG
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Re: ERRORS

#27 Unread post by PetesPockets55 »

Nice images. You do have something there. Not sure about all four.
1)Looks like clash on reverse (might be a die gouge on the Eagles wing.)
2)Nice lamination with the copper showing.
3)D/D (RPM) not sure.
4)DDR- Where do you see the doubling?

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Re: ERRORS

#28 Unread post by Daniel »

The coin was struck with clashed dies, then abraded to remove clash marks and is a late die stage, so all that you're seeing is a result of that. Also the coin has circulation marks so anything you're seeing can be attributed to those factors.

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Re: ERRORS

#29 Unread post by periklis »

PetesPockets55 wrote:...
3)D/D (RPM) not sure.
4)DDR- Where do you see the doubling?
It is hard to see in the photos but in hand with magnifying glass appears, if you look carefully and with the proper light.
And there are more others at various points in reverse.
New pictures (for DDR and RPM):
DDCN0005.JPG
DDCN0006.JPG
DDCN0007.JPG
DDCN0009.JPG
DDCN0009.JPG (46.69 KiB) Viewed 2419 times
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Re: ERRORS

#30 Unread post by periklis »

Daniel wrote:...then abraded to remove clash marks and is a late die stage...
Daniel, I can not translate properly this piece so I do not understand what you mean. if you tried to write me otherwise please. :dunno


Daniel wrote:...Also the coin has circulation marks so anything you're seeing can be attributed to those factors.
I can not understand what you mean here ... If you want, please analyzed and give me an example based on a photo of them that I put above
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Re: ERRORS

#31 Unread post by Daniel »

All that I am seeing in these images is from the coin being handled and exchanging hands.

It is also struck by a die in a late die stage. So the die is worn and shows signs of being over used.

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Re: ERRORS

#32 Unread post by periklis »

Ok, one by one please...

Can you explain me what is that ?

DSCN0003.JPG
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Re: ERRORS

#33 Unread post by Daniel »

Looks like a possible die break.

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Re: ERRORS

#34 Unread post by periklis »

Daniel wrote:Looks like a possible die break.
No Daniel, it is not Die Break and i think that is clear. Is a Clash Mark:


(from http://www.maddieclashes.com)
"The clash mark indicated by the black arrow is the area between Washington's neck and queue..."
w44733114.jpg
w44733114.jpg (83.16 KiB) Viewed 2104 times
And continue with the rest:

¨...to the left and above the tips of the arrows are made by Washiungton's nose."
w44733118.jpg
w44733118.jpg (74.42 KiB) Viewed 2104 times
¨...the clash mark found on the reverse die. Washington's throat and chin area are seen to the left and under the beak of the eagle."
w44733111.jpg
w44733111.jpg (76.78 KiB) Viewed 2104 times
For more, look here:
http://maddieclashes.com/CCL_TI_-25c-1967-01.html
http://www.maddieclashes.com/tdc-25c-1941-01/
http://www.maddieclashes.com/adc-25c-1966-01sms/
http://www.maddieclashes.com/adc-25c-1980p-01/

I know that there is not the same date but we have definitely the same die clash error with similar marks. So, we have for sure 2 errors at the coin (Clashed dies + Lamination), plus other 2 errors that maybe you can not see on the pictures but i can see in hand: RPM + DDR. I believe that everything would be much cleaner if the coin was not so worn and in my opinion this is only the problem that prevents you to see it.

So with this fact (4 errors) I would like to tell me what value is this coin.
SORRY, I use auto-translation cause I dont speak English

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Re: ERRORS

#35 Unread post by Daniel »

It looks like it in these new images, but could not tell in the first image.

You can make it easier by looking at these images that I have on my website. http://coinauctionshelp.com/quarter_overlays.html

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Re: ERRORS

#36 Unread post by periklis »

Ok, now the important thing for me is to help me with the value of this coin.
How much money do you think can be sold?
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Re: ERRORS

#37 Unread post by Daniel »

It is not dramatic or obvious enough to add value, people look for obvious and strong die clashes. If you have to magnify and point it out then it's not going to appeal to most collectors.

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