ANGS - Do not buy coins graded by ANGS!

[fyrdog1]

snakerus42069 seems to have several of these ANGS "graded" coins for sale, I also noted that Hertel's is another name on his site. Currently he is going to a coins show in Orlando, Florida. Look for him there.

[Daniel]

Good info on this seller. If you want to buy slabbed coins, I buy from cheapslabs.com. You can buy holdered coins from all the top tier and somtimes second tier grading services. If they think the coin looks the grade, they tell you, and if it don't they tell you.

[coinstar]

Hi have you seen this? On ebay user name (snakerus42069) every coin claims to be MS66 or higher by the same grader ANGS. Whats going on? Is this a scam? Can you help me figure out what the blazes is goin on, and is there no enforcement of any kind for US coins being fraudlently sold at a value not its worth?

[Daniel]

This is the same person as just snakesrus, they added the numbers to their id, just snakesrus is no longer a registered user. Values and grades of coins is subjective and depends on too many factors to presecute a fraud seller like this, according to our current laws. If I had the money, I would take this seller all the way to the Supreme Court.

I thought, by now, that someone would have aready attmepted a law suit against such sellers, but I haven't heard of any.

[coinstar]

No he is still operating more than ever, I just checked.

[coinstar]

The more I dive into this the more im upset about the lack of govering of our silver dollars and others, dont get me wrong, Im a starch Conservative, less goverment ALLWAYS, but something like currency that the goverment dominates, why is there such a lack? How can there be no penalties? For the 3rd party grader or for the the big three grading wrong or doin it as a favor for friend ect......... whats your thoughts on this?

[Daniel]

I was banned from Collectors Universe for voicing my opinion of PCGS greedy practices. I have been told that, even though it's a public forum, I can still be cencored since they own the forum and run it.

I didn't say anything disrespectful, just said that PCGS onsite photos, at the coin show, are just another attempt to take more money from the collector and it shows corporate greed. And the photos cost around $30, and people can take their own or get them taken cheaper.

I guess, they don't take customers advice or suggestions very well. Of course, there where a couple PCGS butt kissers that chimed in and inflated the comments I made. I was actually banned by the President of PCGS, it was his post that I commented in.

I bet, if the FBI did an unbiased investigation of PCGS, and their connections, and network of dealers, they would find information that many collectors wouldn't like.

[coinstar]

Easy Daniel, freedom of speech on both side's is very important, I understad ur anger dont let it blind you wwith the law, think about how the law is used in this manner...............theres nothing they can do, nor would they. There are to many positions the law has to take than dealing with the diff of broker dealers on grading. I'v done a lot of research to find this out. Please post my add. Thanks Daniel your a true patriot

[RHM22]

The problem is that grading is subjective. If they think the coin is MS70 even though it's barely readable, that's not illegal, it's just being stupid. The only way they could actually be charged is if you proved that they had intent to defraud or if they made some sort of guarantee as to the coin's grade and then didn't honor that guarantee. In my opinion, the law is not how these bunko artists should be fought. Education of the collector, rather, is the most important thing.

[coinstar]

Education will not prevent greed...........

[RHM22]

Education will not prevent greed...........

No, but said greed will find no victims if most or all collectors know to stay away.

It's now common knowledge that coins shouldn't be cleaned, but it didn't used to be. Some coins still get cleaned, but since books, periodicals and general word of mouth have let people in on the secret, most people know not to clean coins, or any antique for that matter.

No one can ever stop Chinese counterfeiting or even false grading by trying to shut down the culprits. Even if it can be proven that a grader is trying to defraud (which it can't), 2 more will sprout in it's place. To defeat the coin scam Hydra, a Hercules is needed, and that Hercules comes in the form of education. If as much energy was exerted educating not only the current collectors, but those of the future, then such absurd scams as buy-a-grade services and Chinese fakes would be hampered. As it is, they are both thriving.

[Daniel]

Greed works both ways. One, a seller who doesn't know, or even cares, that they are selling over graded coins. Two, the buyer who thinks they can get a high grade coin for a cheap price. Nonetheless, bother are victims of their own circumstance, and ignorant of how they hurt the hobby, and if not ignorant, then uncaring and unable to see anymore than few inches beyond their own scope of financial inferiority.

I started this website, blogs and forum to help prevent coin collectors from getting ripped off. I have saved a few, while some send emails wishing they would have found my site before they got ripped off, and a very small amount are glad they found my website before they got ripped off. I wish I could do more and reach more people.

I just don't have the money to advertise, or I would be all over the coin publications and TV. I hope to be able to do this someday, and I'm working harder than most people at achieving this goal. It takes more than a temper, a few emails, and posting on forums to stop this over-grading fraud. I know this from experience.

[cbc454]

snakerus42069 continues to flood ebay with dozens of outrageously overgraded, harshly cleaned coins (60 currently listed). What really gets me is the ebay feedback he is accumulating; there are lots of POSITIVE feedback entries with comments like "ANGS MS-67? TARNISHED OR BURNISHED RIM OB+RE"; "over graded but ok for price"; "nice coin, but doubt very much it is MS66": "ANGS coins are OK; know up front that they are 20 or more points overgraded."

Then there are the "Neutral" comments: "coin has been circulated...not ms67": "quite a few scraches on coin to be ms68"

And finally, one buyer who left a negative: "Coin has been cleaned, and graded by a fly by night grading system."

Feedback is supposed to help weed out the bad guys, but if buyers recognize a bad seller and leave positive feedback anyway, the system will never work.

[Daniel]

I see the same thing. I hope ebay can come up with restrictions on sellers who accumulate so many neg feedbacks during a certain amount of time. Maybe limit their selling privileges until they improve their selling methods. I don't think it can be stopped, but these sellers deserve punishment.

[RHM22]

If they get too many negatives, they'll get kicked off of eBay, but that takes a lot of negative feedback.

[great1putt]

Does anyone REALLY think that Ebay is going to suspend a seller like ANGS and lose those massive list, sell, and Paypal fees? Not likely. THAT'S WHY WE NOW HAVE www.usacoinbook.com and hopefully some good old solid American competition for EBAY in the coin world. :patriot:
A seller has to commit an illegal act...not just a slight of hand on unsuspecting buyers. Believe me, ANGS would have to basically sell, take the money, then not ship probably around 50 items in one month before Ebay did anything to them. Outright counterfeit is about the only way a seller is going to be kicked to the curb.
Sad but true. I have quit buying on Ebay except maybe some silver bullion type coins just to fill out things. Anyone looking to build a real collection with hard core slabbed high end stuff is gambling on Ebay. I have seen counterfeits come out of top tier slabs.
I am like the other guys...for slabbed stuff there is cheapslabs.com.

[Maineman750]

The big thing with eBay is watching for a return policy,knowing what to look for,and returning it .I've gotten refunds this year that total over $1600 from eBay.If enough people would do that,I'm sure they would rethink their position.However, I'm much more inclined to go with USACoinbook because of the lower fees and the fact that they are sticking to coins and accessories.As for graders,I'm sticking with PCGS,NGC,and ANACS.......the last not being quite as conservative as the first two,but much more "user friendly" to deal with.

[hparker619]

I've been seeing a lot of these coins on eBay. I'm glad i didn't buy their garbage. Thanks for the info !!

i'm with you on this one if its not pcgs or ngc i'm out !

[Daniel]

This seller has now changed their name to snakerus4z5r and all they sell are these ANGS over-graded and cleaned coins. However, their auction description claims they don't know about theses coins and asks for no negative feedback.

Here's how goofy they're:

"YOU WILL RECEIVE EXACT COIN AS PICTURED, SO THERE SHOULDNT BE ANY PROBLEMS WITH ITEM AS DESCRIBED CATEGORY AS STATED BY EBAY POLICY.
WE DO Guarantee the authenticity of this coin... .. you will receive exact coin as pictured though so no negatives please as you are buying the coin as pictured and any problems let us know before u leave feedback bc we cant fix a problem with an item if we dont know about it......"

I say:
Oh come on, snakerus4z5r! You know many people are buying the coin as YOU graded it, and not by the image. If not, then why offer them graded? I know why, because you hope a person will place a higher bid since the holder says so.

Steps down from soap box.