Can proofs be rescued?

[Mlandri]

I'm helping my mother in law look through her late husband's coin collection. Sadly, the coins were not stored well. Among other items, she has two type-2 1981 United states proof set and one type-1. While the coins were never taken from their cases, all the coins are quite discolored. My guess is that these coins are lost causes but decided to ask. Can discolored coin values be restored?

[PetesPockets55]

Can you please post some images of the sets so we can help.
Toned coins appeal to some collectors.

[Mlandri]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B64GII ... p=drivesdk

[Mlandri]

Couldn't post picture directly but pic can be found at link above.

[PetesPockets55]

You're right about not being properly stored. How were you able to determine type 1 or 2 (let alone the date) with the plastic so fogged and damaged?

[Mlandri]

Can't see all the coins well enough. However, the markings are clear enough on at least half the coins in each set. Also, having both types side by side makes it MUCH easier. ...also was using a loop!

[Mlandri]

Makes me sad to see their condition. My father in law also had several sets of silver ingots and the such. All pretty sad shape. Only worth now is their silver content.

[Daniel]

You can add an image just select attachment tab, add files, select images, click open then wait for the green bar to go all the way to the right.

[Mlandri]

Cool
Is there a way to rescue these coins?

[Daniel]

You need to remove them from this holder and see how much is on the holder and the coin and to better see the coins. I have removed coins from these but it's a careful task.

[PetesPockets55]

Makes me sad to see their condition. My father in law also had several sets of silver ingots and the such. All pretty sad shape. Only worth now is their silver content.

Do you know if they were immersed in water to do so much damage?

[Mlandri]

On close inspection, looks like grime. I don't see obvious corrosion. I've read that soaking coins in olive polis a safe way to remove the grime. True?

[Mlandri]

...olive oil

[Mlandri]

Hmm. Looks like grime not corrosion. I've read that soaking coins in olive oil is a safe way to remove grime. Is this true?

[PetesPockets55]

I've heard the same thing for encrusted or dirty coins but not for what ails your coins. If oil from finger prints can damage a BU coin imagine what olive oil can do! widegrin
Some people put coins in peroxide or acetone but different chemicals can affect copper or clad coins differently. Wait for others to weigh in. Someone here may have experience in what might be possible.

[Mlandri]

@petespocket55: I don't believe that they were in water. Instead, they were stored in an old leaky garage for 20 years. Maybe equivalent in the end. That being said, the coins were in a sealed plastic case, so its also possible that the plastic case was degrading leading to coin discoloration. Perhaps I'm being too naive but I'm hoping that the discoloration is grime that can be removed.

[mhonzell]

Olive oil is used on coins that are at least 450 years old and are encrusted in dirt.
Anything younger and the coin's surface will be affected because the "patina" isn't thick enough to handle it.

That said, when a coin is already damaged, then the oil is not likely to damage it more. Olive oil is fantastic to remove PVC residue. As to anything else, well, it's an experiment. But, the coins appear to currently be face value. (Unless some are silver, then they are melt value.)

[Daniel]

This is environmental damaged caused by hard water moisture, I am not sure how but looks like these were submerged in water for a while. It is a very similar look to a coin that has been in a cup holder of a car. Molecules are extremely small and this has corroded the surface of these coins and it's going to be difficult to "fix" them, IF they can be.

The coins are clad with copper and nickel and they are more difficult to restore than silver.

[Mlandri]

Appreciate the info. Yeah, no reason to be optimistic based on this feedback which is what I anticipated. I'll try the olive oil for grins and giggles just to see what (if anything) happens. Thanks for sharing your expertise and experience!

[Daniel]

I would try it since they're face value as is and you can make them worth less than face unless you deface them. No pun intended.

[Mlandri]

Olive oil by itself, nothing. Olive oil + a little saltwater + electrolysis (D cell battery, a couple wires, and electrical tape), AMAZING! One of the pennies is almost completely clean. I don't think that the coins will ever get back to proof condition, but this was a really interesting/fun experiment.

[mhonzell]

And that's where some of those funky "experiment" coins we talk about, come from.

While they look better, close inspection will always reveal that they have been "altered". In numismatic terms, they are "damaged".

Nothing wrong with that as they were already damaged. But, they should never be passed on to others as anything else.

[Daniel]

The coins will always be a proof, since proof is not a condition but results from being struck my specially prepared dies and struck more than once. So you got cleaned proofs that I would like to see images of.

[Mlandri]

@daniel: I'll give them an extra day. Once they're out, I'll post some pictures. I think that only the one penny referenced above will look presentable in the end. The other coins are looking much better but they will always be quite discolored.

@mhonzell: no plans to try selling these coins but appreciate the insight. Really, I'm just experimenting to determine how much these damaged coins can be rehabilitated.

[mhonzell]

:l Guess you could classify them as "Shipwreck" coins. They've been immersed in water for a period of time and restored through electrolysis.
PS. Daniel said it best... they will always be "Proofs" as that was determined by the process used to strike them.

[Mlandri]

See picture below. I set this up last night using olive oil and salt water. All that black goop and such came off of the coins.

Electrolysis

[Daniel]

Looks like more than black goop came off widegrin

[Mlandri]

As it turns out using aluminum for the cathode causes the aluminum to dissolve into a gray slurry.

Check out the results. I'm fairly confident that I bring these coin back to something resembling good condition if I continued working on them. However, it's not worth it I think. They'd be "cleaned" proofs.

[Daniel]

The only one that is worth restoring is the Susan B Anthony IF it is the Flat S mint mark variety, if this process hasn't mired the surface then it can safely be called restored and be sold.

Here's some images to compare your coins to viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7851&p=25842#p25842