1965/Cent- Maybe First Run on Die Pr?

[CopperFinger]

Couldn't beleave this Cent was in one of two rolls from bank today. Looking for some opinions as to what it would grade and do you'll think from a new Die pr? Thanks All.

[Paul]

i'm assuming you are referring to"die state" here ..... ??
.....or the amount of "detectable die wear" that has occurred from striking ..... ??

...by looking at the 'crispy-ness' or the 'sharpness' of the devices & lettering (such as the memorial steps here).......
:eureka:
i also like to inspect the "radial edge fracture",.....or the 'amount of wear' that occurs to the outer portions of the die-face itself,....& 'how far inward', toward the center of the die this 'wear' has traveled....so to speak
hugeeyes pic

[Paul]

with reference to this "die state"....you will see abbreviations like "FT", or "FS",.....

:eureka:
which stand for":
FT = "full torch" on dimes
FS = "full steps" on nickels

[dipper13]

Is there a substance on the penny? There are yellow spots... Hard to grade, try hot water to remove

[CopperFinger]

Hi All ,Thanks Paul1, Dipper 13, their is something yellow on I was afraid to clean off. Yes Paul I was reffering to Die State. I just read before were the first few coins struck from new Dies could have a Proof like Surface to them. I will give it a cleaning.The edges of coin look look to be free of any Die wear. Thanks..

[CopperFinger]

The steps and Pillars due look to have some were know that I looked a little harder.

[Paul]

The steps and Pillars due look to have some were know that I looked a little harder.

all the different "devices" (design elements), on all of our different denominations, "wear down" differently across the 'die-face' as coins are struck.

:eureka:
fresh new dies, that have sharp details, & no 'die plugging', produce the "early die state" (EDS) coins,....as the dies are continued to be used, they wear down, plug up, & get touched up by "polishing"A.....thus, producing coins that are not as 'bold in details',...
& depending on the coin materials (planchet makup), the 'die wear' imparted onto that coin during the strike (for business coins), gives them the 'luster' ("cartwheel or shimmery reflection") we all like to see....

:eureka:
for "die-state"on the reverse of 'memorial cents',.....i look at the 'steps definition',....& the 'roof detail'..... hugeeyes pic below for an EDS example

A. a good example here is the so called "floating roof error" :s on the memorial cents,.... that many will try to sell you as a "rare error".....whereas this is NOT AN ERROR, but simply a worn/polished die

[mhonzell]

depending on the coin materials (planchet makup), the 'die wear' imparted onto that coin during the strike (for business coins), gives them the 'luster' ("cartwheel or shimmery reflection") we all like to see....

I'm probably misunderstanding, but are you stating that a new die (no wear) will not impart luster?

I'm under the assumption that the cartwheel is a result of tiny lines created by metal flow that radiates outwards from the center of the coin to the rim of the coin. These are easily destroyed as the coin is handled giving us our less than Mint State grades. Die wear, as you pointed out, can make these flow lines more prominent, especially towards the rim. The newer the die surface, the smaller these flow lines.

[Paul]

depending on the coin materials (planchet makup), the 'die wear' imparted onto that coin during the strike (for business coins), gives them the 'luster' ("cartwheel or shimmery reflection") we all like to see....

I'm probably misunderstanding, but are you stating that a new die (no wear) will not impart luster?

I'm under the assumption that the cartwheel is a result of tiny lines created by metal flow that radiates outwards from the center of the coin to the rim of the coin. These are easily destroyed as the coin is handled giving us our less than Mint State grades. Die wear, as you pointed out, can make these flow lines more prominent, especially towards the rim. The newer the die surface, the smaller these flow lines.

m,
your right, it's very hard to explain,....the difference/combination of 'cartwheel' & 'luster' with respect to 'strike pressure metal flow', & the 'die-face fracture' that occurs as the die deteriorates.....
washington quarters make good examples to see these on....

[CopperFinger]

Good Morning, Think I have some better pics. Trying to show natural color of coin and it's surface.What I was trying to say is I read were the first few strikes from a new Die could cause the coin to have a proof like surface. The obverse looks like it could of been from a newer die. Thanks...

[CopperFinger]

Beautiful coin for being in a bank roll.

[Paul]

OK, so good example here of "luster" in these pics......
with "smooth" fields (specifically near the edges), that do not show any signs of die wear/fatigue, ..... as in the pics i posted above.....

[dipper13]

This coin might not grade. It is a good strike,but there is a blackish color on the back of his head and coat. It does not look like the classic Browning of a cent. It is r/b everywhere else. 1965 pennies are another example of poor mass produced coins. They do not get valuable until ms67.SMS coins are another story.

[CopperFinger]

Hi Again, Yea Dipper13 , what ever the yellow stuff was on it actually turned it a blueish color underneath

[dipper13]

Do not laugh, I had a penny like it, washed it off and it turned black!?? Maybe it is iron or some exotic industrial chemical.??

[CopperFinger]

Looking at in hand the blue color looks the same color as a fingerprint does.So if coin didn't have the Crud on it what do you think it would have graded?

[Daniel]

This coin would grade MS63 because of the obvious mark on the beard and all the tiny chatter all over the coin's surface.

[dipper13]

:agree: This coin is nice, but even if it did not have that mark, it would not grade high. Too much chatter.