California gold half dollars

[dipper13]

Hi all. I just got a few California gold half dollars from a friend. I gave him a couple of my 1883 o silver dollars from rolls I had bought. He had a leather bag filled with these gold half dollar coins/tokens that were passed on to him from relatives. Seems he had a great uncle who was there in 1849, wow!! Well I picked out 2 round tokens with an ugly Indian chief dated 1852 and 1854. They weigh .7 grams and my detector says they are gold. I also got one shaped like an octagon dated 1857 that weighs .6 grams with an ugly Indian princess who seems to have a similar face like the chief. I know they are genuine, saw some online. the reverses say California gold with a 1/2 and a bear at the bottom. My question is why are prices all over the map. I have seen $20 to $250, and some of the cheap ones looked BU?????? Any ideas???

[Daniel]

Need to see images, metal detectors will give a gold signal for other metals as well.

[dipper13]

Here are pix of 1857.

[Paul]

how weird d,
i have been trying to buy a 1857 cal octagonal fractional gold for my brother....
in a nice au, or low ms....
for about 8 months now....
but always get outbid, or shill bid way to high.

[dipper13]

Paul, why are the prices all over the place??

[mhonzell]

As a rule, the "coins" have the denomination spelled out: “Dollar”, “Doll.” or “Dol. “ etc. The tokens, in order to comply with a federal law enacted in 1864 (but not enforced until 1871) could not have “dollar” in any form, so the tokens simply used ¼, ½ , 1 , “one” or left off the denomination entirely. In 1883 the laws changed again and it was found that the Indian head and Liberty head tokens too closely resembled circulating coinage, so designs with the California coat of arms, miners, and other themes became popular. It has been found that a number of tokens share obverse dies with the coins and these “hybrids” are popular with collectors and in fact are quite scarce.

None of the original California gold tokens have bears as a design device. Your tokens are modern replicas. (Yes, they are tokens.) Most likely brass, or gold plated metal. These replicas are typically thicker than the original paper-thin tokens and were made from 1930-1950.

All of the small California gold coins that are contemporary with their dates were minted between 1852-56 and were privately made by jewelers. The purpose of these coins was to alleviate the acute coin shortage, especially of small change that existed in the “Gold Rush” era in California. The coins were slightly underweight in relation to their face value. This fact was ignored since the need was so great and the alternative was to use unreliable gold dust.

Nearly all the 1852-56 coins are signed by the makers by an initial punched into the die. They come in 1/4, 1/2 and 1 dollar denomination which are part of the reverse design, usually placed within a circular beaded border. The coins come in octagonal and round shapes.

We know from publications of that time that these small coins were used as money. Later pieces dated from 1859-82 were made by jewelers for the trade and not for use as money, though some of these pieces might have circulated as well. The “souvenir” tokens of 1870 to about 1915 were probably used as money as well as jewelry items. The jeweler’s tokens are valued far less than the issues of 1852-56.

[Paul]

i agree with m here on these specific octagonals....
i personally would NEVER attempt to buy a coin(s) like these that were not at least cert. by one of "the top three" companies...even from a 'dealer'.

prices:
this one is complicated.
i've been active on one big 'coin selling' website for 15 years now. there are soooo many "tips-n-tricks" they use at on-line auctions, you would not believe me unless i showed you how each worked. this has been going on since the beginning of "auctions",...of course,...their just trying to get as much as they can...right?
bidding on your own items, to 'drive up the price' (called "shill bidding"), is commonplace, & EXTREMELY EASY to do....in conjunction with 'private bidder' auctions, makes it even easier. petty much standard operating procedure nowdays. this just what it has evolved into....in today's marketplace, & easy to prove. keep in mind, this is not about "collecting" anymore, but 'making money'. again, i could write a small book here....

it is clear that the certified coin 'auction' prices seem to fall in line with a % (65-80?) of the currently posted on-line 'price guides' for that 'assigned grade', which is on the interior slip of paper.
you see a "grade", look it up on some price guide, & there is the "value". :l

but there are MANY FACTORS here for auction items:
how many 'followers'....'bid makers' does that seller have ?
'COIN' image quality ?
how many bidders are 'cash liquid' at the auction close ?
are current bidders just 'flippers' ?
where did the 'price guide figures' really come from ? (a key factor)
....these are, "just to name a few",....with several important 'sub-details' for each.

bidders need to pick an 'EXACT AMOUNT' that will be their "max bid"....& not let any self-conceived reason to bid higher (if that guy has a 6500 feedback, & they bid $X's, then it must be worth.....).