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1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:50 pm
by mylcoinintx
0001(5).jpg
i circled it
I happened to look at the cherry picker's list when I was examining the coin and It stated to look for a shadow of an S mint mark struck above the D. I could hardly believe my eyes hugeeyes when I found a beautiful S mint mark above the D and slanted towards the 8 in the date. I've had a hard time trying to take a photo of this shadow mint mark. The picture does not due it justice. The S actually does look just like a S you find on the proof coins. Now I'm wondering if it's worth anything. Anyway here's the picture...

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:07 pm
by Paul
is there a current 'listed variety' for this one?? whistling2:

(i'm just looking at the 'size' of the 'S')

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:27 pm
by PetesPockets55
Mylcoinintx nice pick up but unfortunately the following link will explain your find.

1980 D/S Coppercoins information.
Personally I can't see how it is anything but a D/S but Coppercoins and other experts apparently are in agreement.

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:32 am
by Paul
i agree with the "de-bunking" here....

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:37 am
by mhonzell
While I have to agree with the write-up on the die gouges, it is amazing how they just "happen" to create this 'S'. Take a photo of a normal 'S' mintmark and overlay it onto this photo. You will see a significant size difference and shape is wrong.

I'd keep it just because it is so unique.

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:05 am
by mylcoinintx
Thank you everyone for your input. I did read the article about the 1980 d/s coin. In my humble opinion if it's not on all the coins, then something is wrong. All coins should and do look alike, in their appropriate denomination, so that we know they are true. If a coin comes out with something so defined as the S on the 1980 d penny, it should be noted as different. Since all the coins show the exact same mistake does not mean that it's there because of some explanation of it. But since they are the experts and have made the ruling, we will abide by it until someone else proves them wrong. It's just my luck to find something on the 2009 cherry picker's list that is "debunked". What I don't understand is that it was debunked in 2006, yet the 2009 cherry pickers list still has it noted. I guess they didn't feel like it should be eliminated. And yes I will be keeping this coin in my collection just in case they ever get whistling2: it changed back......

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:39 pm
by mhonzell
mylcoinintx wrote:if it's not on all the coins, then something is wrong
The mint operators maintain dies as they are used. There are many sets of dies for one particular year's coin. If the operator managed to gouge this one die during some form of maintenance, then only those coins made with this die would show the gouges.

What you are suggesting with your statement is that the master die was gouged before any other dies were made. That does not appear to be the case.

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:49 am
by mylcoinintx
No. What I was trying to say is that all the coins from one die must be the same. The S on my coin does not look like the example given to de-bunk the OMM. Now that it is eliminated, would anybody look at the coins that might have a d/s? I don't think so! The S on my coin looks a lot like the S you would find on a proof of that year. I have a detailed mind. I can see slight changes in most everything. I've seen many coins with small errors but not worth mentioning. I'm sure we all have. The problem now is, will anyone ever take the time to look over a coin that has been de-bunked, to see if it may be different? Just look at the doubling coins, a lot are not, but there are the ones that are. Just my humble opinion, which everyone has one.....thanks for reading....

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:16 pm
by mhonzell
First, you are fighting an uphill battle:
In 1980, there were no business strike cents with the 'S' mint mark. How would you explain the cross-over?
Second, YOU have to prove otherwise. We don't have the coin in-hand. The experts already agree with the research posted around the web and they think it is die gouges. We posted that we agree with the experts. We would be happy to change our minds if you can give us something more to go with, but at the moment, we have one photo from one aspect.

As previously stated, I recommended you make a photo of a 1980S mint mark (a proof coin), size the photo so the '98' are the same as the photo you provided, then make that photo into a layer that you can slide and rotate over the 'S' in question. You will find the 'S' you are looking at is not the same size or shape as the official mint mark.

Lastly, the TPGs no longer accept this as an OMM.

You originally stated that this is in Cherry Picker's. Did you read the Description and Comments?
"This was previously listed as a 1980-D Over S cent, the old FS--034-1. The D Over S status has since been removed and we feel very comfortable deleting this listing.
Should anyone offer this coin as a D Over S variety, be very suspicious of it and consider confirmation from a variety specialist."

The experts have spoken, and as you suggested, read their comments:
Ken Potter's page
CONECA page

As always, we recommend you show the whole coin so that we can see unique markers. For instance, is there a small die break in the letter U of United? If it is the same die, then you have a variety known as 1980D-OMM-1, but it will not be accepted by a TPG as a true OMM. The designation identifies this coin as controversial. There are other controversial errors out there. Keep this one and in a few years it may once again be considered a true variety. Either way, it is interesting and a keeper.

Re: 1980 d penny S shadow over D mint mark

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:58 pm
by Paul
the wheels on the bus go 'round-n-'round, 'round-n-'round, 'round-n-'round....
i agree with m....sooner or later, some guy like me...finds the 'nicest' one they can, throws it under a SEM1 & settels it....

so if one of those guys says it's not,...i believe them.

1. SEM = SCANNING ELECTRON MICROSCOPE