Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins
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Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
- Paul
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Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins
I am aware that these posts can be disturbing, but they are made to make you aware of what’s really happening in the market today. I’m not ‘pointing fingers’, ‘accusing anyone’, or suggesting that you are being cheated….but, read on please.
Here is a 1896 Indian Head Cent. Nice looking, huh? Most often, when I do error attributions, or coin imaging for people, they toss me a coin or two for doing the work. That’s where this one came from.
Here is a 1896 Indian Head Cent. Nice looking, huh? Most often, when I do error attributions, or coin imaging for people, they toss me a coin or two for doing the work. That’s where this one came from.
- Paul
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage
When I first scanned the coin quickly ‘under my scope’, I saw a ‘strange non-contact’ looking mark/anomaly on the reverse at K7 in the leaves. First I checked the magnetism….O.K. there. Next I weighed the coin….3 times. With the amount of detail on the coin, & very little if any wear, I knew that it should be very close to the ‘proper full weight’ of 3.11 grams. But this one is 3.055 grams. Hmmmmmm, way to light. Now I wanna check the ‘diameter’. That measured 19.11 mm……& should be 19.05 mm. Hmmmmmmm, a bit ‘oversized’. Maybe a minor broadstrike?? Only after failing 2 of these ‘tests’, I did a ‘drop test’ (I do not recommend this at all). Since I know exactly what an Indian Cent should ‘sound like’, when dropped from a ½ inch on my desk (you kinda develop an ‘ear’ for this), it sounded “tinny”, so I did it a few times, a heard the same sound.
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage
So, back under the scope……because most all of these ‘fakes’ have some things wrong with them.
Here is the sad part. The buyer paid $40 for this coin. It is not a ‘key’, or ‘semi-key’ date, & this is where these get missed as counterfeits. Because this date is not a “semi-, or key”, you would not expect them to be a “fake”…..& is what makes them a ‘perfect scam coin’.
From my experience, these are usually “seed coins”, or “teaser coins”….they are added into the so called “un-searched coin rolls”, so when their found, & they are so nice, buyers go back for more. Also see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=9914&hilit=unsearched
Here are the things that, under high power magnification, that looked ‘off’ to me. As you get better at this, by looking at more & more & more coins, you will learn the ‘circulation wear’ (a.k.a. “rub”) patterns (the wear on the higher points of the coin),….as well as the minor “album & flip friction” wear patterns on B/U coins, if that is where they were kept. Another key factor to ‘learn’, is “die fracture” (a.k.a. “fatigue”)…..this is how the coin will look as the die ‘breaks down’ from “repetitive striking”, & the resulting details (crisp/weak) that are imparted on the planchet during the strike for that “die stage” (early, mid, late). These will vary for each different coin design, & “learning these” will help you spot the imposters……
Anyone buying “raw coins” should at least have a decent digital ‘scale’……& of course a “strong” magnet. Notice the magnet I use. A ‘telescoping pen’ style. They are made with ‘super strong’ magnet heads, are ‘inexpensive’, & will pick up on the ‘slightest magnetism’.
Aside from the ‘size & weight’, see if you can see why …..
Here is the sad part. The buyer paid $40 for this coin. It is not a ‘key’, or ‘semi-key’ date, & this is where these get missed as counterfeits. Because this date is not a “semi-, or key”, you would not expect them to be a “fake”…..& is what makes them a ‘perfect scam coin’.
From my experience, these are usually “seed coins”, or “teaser coins”….they are added into the so called “un-searched coin rolls”, so when their found, & they are so nice, buyers go back for more. Also see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=9914&hilit=unsearched
Here are the things that, under high power magnification, that looked ‘off’ to me. As you get better at this, by looking at more & more & more coins, you will learn the ‘circulation wear’ (a.k.a. “rub”) patterns (the wear on the higher points of the coin),….as well as the minor “album & flip friction” wear patterns on B/U coins, if that is where they were kept. Another key factor to ‘learn’, is “die fracture” (a.k.a. “fatigue”)…..this is how the coin will look as the die ‘breaks down’ from “repetitive striking”, & the resulting details (crisp/weak) that are imparted on the planchet during the strike for that “die stage” (early, mid, late). These will vary for each different coin design, & “learning these” will help you spot the imposters……
Anyone buying “raw coins” should at least have a decent digital ‘scale’……& of course a “strong” magnet. Notice the magnet I use. A ‘telescoping pen’ style. They are made with ‘super strong’ magnet heads, are ‘inexpensive’, & will pick up on the ‘slightest magnetism’.
Aside from the ‘size & weight’, see if you can see why …..
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
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- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3319 times
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3319 times
Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage
here is a coin i just watched......
this is a "semi-mini" replica 1877....100% non-genuine!
:eureka:
notice the "no returns"....& if you think your covered by some 'refund guarantee'....well, i can tell you that i bought a flying eagle cent last year, it was real, but the seller sent me a fake.....after the "discussions" with the website i bought it on...i had to 'prove' it was a fake....as 'they recommended', i sent it to NGC. SURE ENOUGH, i knew it was a fake, i received it back in a "body bag" (a flip, as NGC does not encapsulate "non-genuine" coins)......here is the 'hook'.....i was told i would get no refund, as there is no 'proof' that was the coin i bought....it was not 'slabbed'....& if a seller refuses to give you a refund, you loose!
this is a "semi-mini" replica 1877....100% non-genuine!
:eureka:
notice the "no returns"....& if you think your covered by some 'refund guarantee'....well, i can tell you that i bought a flying eagle cent last year, it was real, but the seller sent me a fake.....after the "discussions" with the website i bought it on...i had to 'prove' it was a fake....as 'they recommended', i sent it to NGC. SURE ENOUGH, i knew it was a fake, i received it back in a "body bag" (a flip, as NGC does not encapsulate "non-genuine" coins)......here is the 'hook'.....i was told i would get no refund, as there is no 'proof' that was the coin i bought....it was not 'slabbed'....& if a seller refuses to give you a refund, you loose!
- Paul
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage
here is the FEC sent to me
this was not the coin imaged in the listing
that seller was suspeneded, but is back now, using almost the exact same user name, selling fakes, making over $2k /week!
markers as noted...
the 'reverse' of these has been repaired due to wide recognition, & 'newer' fakes of this coin are out now
i see these all the time!!
this was not the coin imaged in the listing
that seller was suspeneded, but is back now, using almost the exact same user name, selling fakes, making over $2k /week!
markers as noted...
the 'reverse' of these has been repaired due to wide recognition, & 'newer' fakes of this coin are out now
i see these all the time!!
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage
Thanks for the time spent on this thread Paul. :thumbsup:
I have been going back catching up on some unread posts here and came across this one. You're knowledge and willingness to share and help those of us with little to no experience is soooo appreciated.
This one is definitely worth bringing up again from time to time. Cliff
I have been going back catching up on some unread posts here and came across this one. You're knowledge and willingness to share and help those of us with little to no experience is soooo appreciated.
This one is definitely worth bringing up again from time to time. Cliff
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- Scubaredneck
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins
Thanks, Paul!! You da man!!
:thumbsup:
:yourock:
:thumbsup:
:yourock:
The Scubaredneck
- MichaelShields
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins
Im going to chime in on this one thank you for the information I have much to learn but with the guidance I am getting here I am learning Thank you all again.
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins
absolutely astounded on the amount of information provided. thank you so much
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins
i would recommend that everyone interested "LEARN" the 'ENTIRE minting process' from start to finish ....
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins
We have diagrams of the minting process. You can view them here. http://coinauctionshelp.com/mintingprocesshistory.html
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