Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins

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PALH1
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Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins

#1 Unread post by PALH1 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:23 am

I am aware that these posts can be disturbing, but they are made to make you aware of what’s really happening in the market today. I’m not ‘pointing fingers’, ‘accusing anyone’, or suggesting that you are being cheated….but, read on please.
Here is a 1896 Indian Head Cent. Nice looking, huh? Most often, when I do error attributions, or coin imaging for people, they toss me a coin or two for doing the work. That’s where this one came from.
Attachments
1896 IHC #101_9.jpg
1896 IHC #101_1.jpg



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PALH1
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#2 Unread post by PALH1 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:27 am

When I first scanned the coin quickly ‘under my scope’, I saw a ‘strange non-contact’ looking mark/anomaly on the reverse at K7 in the leaves. First I checked the magnetism….O.K. there. Next I weighed the coin….3 times. With the amount of detail on the coin, & very little if any wear, I knew that it should be very close to the ‘proper full weight’ of 3.11 grams. But this one is 3.055 grams. Hmmmmmm, way to light. Now I wanna check the ‘diameter’. That measured 19.11 mm……& should be 19.05 mm. Hmmmmmmm, a bit ‘oversized’. Maybe a minor broadstrike?? Only after failing 2 of these ‘tests’, I did a ‘drop test’ (I do not recommend this at all). Since I know exactly what an Indian Cent should ‘sound like’, when dropped from a ½ inch on my desk (you kinda develop an ‘ear’ for this), it sounded “tinny”, so I did it a few times, a heard the same sound.
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DCP_1566.JPG
DCP_1564.JPG
DCP_1563.JPG
SPECS.JPG
SPECS.JPG (29.17 KiB) Viewed 1449 times

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PALH1
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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#3 Unread post by PALH1 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:31 am

So, back under the scope……because most all of these ‘fakes’ have some things wrong with them.
Here is the sad part. The buyer paid $40 for this coin. It is not a ‘key’, or ‘semi-key’ date, & this is where these get missed as counterfeits. Because this date is not a “semi-, or key”, you would not expect them to be a “fake”…..& is what makes them a ‘perfect scam coin’.
From my experience, these are usually “seed coins”, or “teaser coins”….they are added into the so called “un-searched coin rolls”, so when their found, & they are so nice, buyers go back for more. Also see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=9914&hilit=unsearched
Here are the things that, under high power magnification, that looked ‘off’ to me. As you get better at this, by looking at more & more & more coins, you will learn the ‘circulation wear’ (a.k.a. “rub”) patterns (the wear on the higher points of the coin),….as well as the minor “album & flip friction” wear patterns on B/U coins, if that is where they were kept. Another key factor to ‘learn’, is “die fracture” (a.k.a. “fatigue”)…..this is how the coin will look as the die ‘breaks down’ from “repetitive striking”, & the resulting details (crisp/weak) that are imparted on the planchet during the strike for that “die stage” (early, mid, late). These will vary for each different coin design, & “learning these” will help you spot the imposters……
Anyone buying “raw coins” should at least have a decent digital ‘scale’……& of course a “strong” magnet. Notice the magnet I use. A ‘telescoping pen’ style. They are made with ‘super strong’ magnet heads, are ‘inexpensive’, & will pick up on the ‘slightest magnetism’.
Aside from the ‘size & weight’, see if you can see why …..
Attachments
1895 IHC #10138.jpg
1895 IHC #10133.jpg
1895 IHC #10132.jpg
1895 IHC #10131.jpg
1895 IHC #10130.jpg
1895 IHC #10126.jpg
1895 IHC #10124.jpg
1895 IHC #10123.jpg
1895 IHC #10117.jpg
1895 IHC #1019.jpg

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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#4 Unread post by PALH1 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:33 am

hugeeyes
Attachments
1895 IHC #10185.jpg
1895 IHC #10172.jpg
1895 IHC #10171.jpg
1895 IHC #10170.jpg
1895 IHC #10162.jpg
1895 IHC #10154.jpg
1895 IHC #10153.jpg
1895 IHC #10152.jpg

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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#5 Unread post by PALH1 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:35 am

hugeeyes
Attachments
1895 IHC6.jpg
1895 IHC5.jpg
1895 IHC3.jpg
1895 IHC4.jpg
1895 IHC1.jpg
1895 IHC2.jpg
1895 IHC0.jpg

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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#6 Unread post by PALH1 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:00 am

here is a coin i just watched......
this is a "semi-mini" replica 1877....100% non-genuine!
:eureka:
notice the "no returns"....& if you think your covered by some 'refund guarantee'....well, i can tell you that i bought a flying eagle cent last year, it was real, but the seller sent me a fake.....after the "discussions" with the website i bought it on...i had to 'prove' it was a fake....as 'they recommended', i sent it to NGC. SURE ENOUGH, i knew it was a fake, i received it back in a "body bag" (a flip, as NGC does not encapsulate "non-genuine" coins)......here is the 'hook'.....i was told i would get no refund, as there is no 'proof' that was the coin i bought....it was not 'slabbed'....& if a seller refuses to give you a refund, you loose!
Attachments
REV.JPG
OBV.JPG
1877 MINI FAKE - Copy.JPG

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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#7 Unread post by PALH1 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:17 pm

here is the FEC sent to me
this was not the coin imaged in the listing
that seller was suspeneded, but is back now, using almost the exact same user name, selling fakes, making over $2k /week!

markers as noted...
the 'reverse' of these has been repaired due to wide recognition, & 'newer' fakes of this coin are out now
i see these all the time!!
Attachments
1857 SEIR #1 R.jpg
1857 SER NG O.jpg
807_2.jpg
807_1.jpg
1857 SER NGC.jpg

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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#8 Unread post by PetesPockets55 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:41 am

Thanks for the time spent on this thread Paul. :thumbsup:
I have been going back catching up on some unread posts here and came across this one. You're knowledge and willingness to share and help those of us with little to no experience is soooo appreciated.
This one is definitely worth bringing up again from time to time. Cliff

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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage

#9 Unread post by Daniel » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Yes, a very good post!

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Re: Buying “Raw” Internet Coinage - Detecting Fake Common Coins

#10 Unread post by Scubaredneck » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:37 pm

Thanks, Paul!! You da man!!

:cool:

:thumbsup:

:yourock:
The Scubaredneck

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