1971 San Fran Mint Question....TOKENS - MEDALS

[Paul]

does anyone know if any FOREIGN coinage was struck in '71 at the SF mint....??
:sos:

[mhonzell]

All foreign coins authorized for mint is US (up to 2006)

[Paul]

All foreign coins authorized for mint is US (up to 2006)

dodo-dodo, dododo-dododo......weird, just found the same EXACT table........!!!

[Paul]

i found a clashed '71 S LC PF in the original 'hard shell' OMP (original mint packaging)....that does not match ANY US COIN..................

[Paul]

i find 8 minted there, non-us....
now to match it up.....
THIS COULD BE MY GREATEST FIND EVER!! :trophy:

[Daniel]

I want to see this!

[Paul]

I want to see this!

sneek peek...............

[Paul]

o.k. i give....
i've checked your info, ngc/pcgs, google/bing, :ebay: ....& the 'listings' of coins for those specific countries in 1971 are huge....most are not imaged on their sites, for that particular coinage....
i just need to quick see a obv/rev of then to see if they even qualy to fit/match with like-kind hair curls....like the 'red cloud' for haiti. just to start somewhere, eliminating all the ones that no way even have that likeness of the design on the coin.

[Daniel]

I am a little confused on how a cent could be struck with a normal design by a die that was clashed with a world coin. You would think the clash die would not be an obverse/obverse clash, but it would almost have to be a reverse on an obverse or visa versa.

What I mean is, if the obverse die was changed out and it clashed with a world coin die, then when the die reverse die was replaced with a cent die then struck a planchet, then you would have the obverse clash mark on the reverse.

I might be confused but I am trying to make sense of this.

[Paul]

well, i know 2 popular obv/obv clashes on the flying eagles. i know of another obv multi-denominational on the FE not 'listed'....
&, any multi-denominational error is a complete screw up. possible they put the obv cent in anvil, then lightly clashed, oops!, looked quick at it a saw no clashing in the fields, & installed it correctly after that?
years ago i found a 1862 IHC obv/obv clashed with a nickel, upper right quadrent....pretty weak, but visible under high power.....
we'll see, i'll find it!

[PetesPockets55]

Pahl1, Very interesting find. The quest is on. Aw yes, a "little" project to chase way those late winter doldrums. happydance:
Bear with me while I try to grasp the clashing possibility.

For example; IF the clash was made by the Haiti Red Cloud obverse die, would the two dies have to be rotated 180 degrees from each other to place the clash on the right side of the coin (actually be upside down as well).

[mhonzell]

The real task is finding detailed photos of each of the foreign coins, both sides. Then scaling the photos to represent actual diameters. Lincoln: 19mm, Centavos: 21 mm. Then finding the correct orientation: rotation, inverted and which side.

It's a "little" project indeed.

I like his initial approach... look at the various coins and determine if there are details on that coin that could possibly create these markings. Many of them could not.

The list indicates what was authorized to be minted. Not what was actually minted. Finding those records would really narrow the list. It also provides some interesting reading! For instance, many of these foreign countries do not stamp the coin with the date the coin was made. Instead, they use the date the design was made. So, a coin made from 1944 to 1966 would all show the same date. Some of those are different only in that they bear a US Mint mark somewhere on the coin. Collectors nightmare.

[Paul]

Pahl1, Very interesting find. The quest is on. Aw yes, a "little" project to chase way those late winter doldrums. happydance:
Bear with me while I try to grasp the clashing possibility.

For example; IF the clash was made by the Haiti Red Cloud obverse die, would the two dies have to be rotated 180 degrees from each other to place the clash on the right side of the coin (actually be upside down as well).

yea, possibly....who knows what happened with what 'paring' in the press...

[Paul]

The real task is finding detailed photos of each of the foreign coins, both sides. Then scaling the photos to represent actual diameters. Lincoln: 19mm, Centavos: 21 mm. Then finding the correct orientation: rotation, inverted and which side.

It's a "little" project indeed.

I like his initial approach... look at the various coins and determine if there are details on that coin that could possibly create these markings. Many of them could not.

The list indicates what was authorized to be minted. Not what was actually minted. Finding those records would really narrow the list. It also provides some interesting reading! For instance, many of these foreign countries do not stamp the coin with the date the coin was made. Instead, they use the date the design was made. So, a coin made from 1944 to 1966 would all show the same date. Some of those are different only in that they bear a US Mint mark somewhere on the coin. Collectors nightmare.

NIGHTMERE is right..i had a buddy send me a pdf book of ALL world coinage the US ever minted. holy mama. i was up till 4am just looking at coin designs from the 8 countries we minted in san fran on that table you posted here!
i know 100% it's not a 'polish' mark, 'die scratch', 'die gouge', or 'post mint damage'......so this is going to be similar to proving 'string theory', or 'M'. (i have an idea there too, that those guys overlooked)
i got a good 'world coin' lesson too. just the 'types' of designs they use on each of their countries coinage, & how they 'evolved' over time....
i am considering posting a few good pics of the clash, & offering a 'reward' or 'finders fee', to help me here.

[Paul]

there are also a few other "oddball" things going on here on the obverse....
the reverse is perfectly "normal"

[Daniel]

I am not saying it's not possible but this must have been done on purpose, so now we find out which coin.

[mhonzell]

Found the following document in the Treasury Archives:

Coins from US Mints 1793-1980

Shows actual mintage numbers, mint, etc. Excludes the list significantly!
Starting on page 100, my review finds that the only foreign coins made at the San Francisco Mint in 1971 were:
Israel 10 pound
Liberia Dollar, Half Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nickel and Penny
Panama 1/2, 1/4, 1/10 Balboa and the 5 Centesimo


The Liberian coin's obverse has a headdress that may have the bends (curls) you're looking for (all special proofs)

[Paul]

i have NO IDEA how this could happen......down 'inside' the device....but i see what i see here.
i think, pretty sure, i found a 'match' for a coin design too.....

[Paul]

hugeeyes

[Paul]

update....
i have had 4 guyz look at this coin.....all "stumped" until i gave them pics w/ explain of what i thought it was....
i now have to 'overlay' the very faint "non-bust" clash marks in the field areas....but they seem to agree the coin has been 'over-struk' with a lincoln cent proof die....after being struk by a mexican obverse "bust device" of the 'center coin BUST example' pictured....wow.

[Daniel]

[Paul]

here are some CRUMMY quickie pics i took long ago @K2 obv....
you need to look very closely, they are very faint...

[PetesPockets55]

Holy cow. I think I found one in a full roll I got a couple of weeks ago. As I remember there may have been multiples. Going to Jax now. If it helps you Paul, I will look when I return Monday.

[Paul]

this one is a PROOF. i found it in a sealed mint set. i hated to 'crack it out',...but needed to, so i could image it properly.
:eureka:
i've been working on it all day. i see several 'non-lincoln cent' device images & the 'over-struk' flattened out "lettering" in the fields....it was struck twice with the 'foreign die', prior to the 'lincoln cent die' hit

[Paul]

i'm still doing images, but i have identified 1 of the 'over-strikes'....there is another i can see, but no matching 'monetary value' coin strike.....

i looked around, but can not find any 'list' of "tokens or medals" struck in '71 @ the SF mint......
if anyone has a list of these...? i would be greatly appreciative..... :yourock:

the final image is a 'list' of "coins" i was sent for the SF mint in '71....but i see NO TIAWAN

[Paul]

100% not 'clashed'.....but 'over-struk', or 'struk-over' a "double struck", already minted coin!....with a 'reeded collar'. i see the 'other coin pattern', just barely, hit twice with a itty bitty shift....& the 'lettering' of the 'other coin' in the fields on the lincoln cent. 100% proof, as i found it in a OMP1 slab.

i can just barely match up the 'under-lying design' on lincolns bust, see the other device patterns all over the coin, but the 'squished down' lettering devices are throwing me off, as they are so clear..... but looks like a "dominican republic" to me.

i've read stories about 'finds like these', but i guess after looking at a bazillion...or 2, of coins for 45 years.....you find that once in a lifetime "find". :w :h happydance:

1. ORIGINAL MINT PACKAGING