Thank you for posting all of these. I agree, they are a very poor company, and I believe that they clean their own coins, in an attempt to justify the over inflated grade. I'm surprised that the local dealer who they grab the coins in his junk bin from, hasn't gotten suspicious by now. I don't buy their junk, and I don't support them. Stick with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd tier companies, not self slabbers. I just wish I could do more.

~Isaiah

I've been seeing a lot of these coins on eBay. I'm glad i didn't buy their garbage. Thanks for the info !!

Your welcome. Thanks for commenting.

Just an added note that this guy/company (whichever) also is selling coins
on eBay with slabs that display the "CNG" initials as well. I haven't seen
any coins on eBay lately from INB.

welcome to the forum, and thanks for the information.

~Isaiah

Good information, but now we have to check out this new TPG. Have a link?

ttt for new members

This so called grading company does not merely over inflate the grades they commit in my opinion outright fraud, knowingly passing off coins that are sometime 50 points below their real grade. It is obvious they are doing this to trap unsuspecting newcomers to the hobby. Its not that they don't belong in our hobby they belong in prison. I still see this fraud going on every day on e bay. Check out Sankerus or Hertels coins they are selling this garbage currently. I looked at a liberty quarter that was marked MS65 when in fact the coin was an XF details coin that had been harshly cleaned. no one slabbing coins could honestly make a mistake like that, and it was constant on every single slabbed coin from them. It is fraud pure and simple, now proving that in a court of law would be extremely difficult, but it is fraud none the less.
ANGS should be out of business as they are a cancer on the hobby.

So I just found this site, a little late I guess. I am also a victim of the ANGS grading service. I purchased one of their Morgan's, took one look at it and questioned its grading. You know the saying "if its too good to be true", once again, it is. I will definately pay closer attention in the future. Anyone want to buy a MS66 1886 Morgan, oh by the way its ANGS graded???? Not cleaned though. Have a great day.

snakerus42069 seems to have several of these ANGS "graded" coins for sale, I also noted that Hertel's is another name on his site. Currently he is going to a coins show in Orlando, Florida. Look for him there.

Good info on this seller. If you want to buy slabbed coins, I buy from cheapslabs.com. You can buy holdered coins from all the top tier and somtimes second tier grading services. If they think the coin looks the grade, they tell you, and if it don't they tell you.

Hi have you seen this? On ebay user name (snakerus42069) every coin claims to be MS66 or higher by the same grader ANGS. Whats going on? Is this a scam? Can you help me figure out what the hell is goin on, and is there no enforcement of any kind for US coins being fraudlently sold at a value not its worth?

This is the same person as just snakesrus, they added the numbers to their id, just snakesrus is no longer a registered user. Values and grades of coins is subjective and depends on too many factors to presecute a fraud seller like this, according to our current laws. If I had the money, I would take this seller all the way to the Supreme Court.

I thought, by now, that someone would have aready attmepted a law suit against such sellers, but I haven't heard of any.

No he is still operating more than ever, I just checked.

The more I dive into this the more im upset about the lack of govering of our silver dollars and others, dont get me wrong, Im a starch Conservative, less goverment ALLWAYS, but something like currency that the goverment dominates, why is there such a lack? How can there be no penalties? For the 3rd party grader or for the the big three grading wrong or doin it as a favor for friend ect......... whats your thoughts on this?

I was banned from Collectors Universe for voicing my opinion of PCGS greedy practices. I have been told that, even though it's a public forum, I can still be cencored since they own the forum and run it.

I didn't say anything disrespectful, just said that PCGS onsite photos, at the coin show, are just another attempt to take more money from the collector and it shows corporate greed. And the photos cost around $30, and people can take their own or get them taken cheaper.

I guess, they don't take customers advice or suggestions very well. Of course, there where a couple PCGS butt kissers that chimed in and inflated the comments I made. I was actually banned by the President of PCGS, it was his post that I commented in.

I bet, if the FBI did an unbiased investigation of PCGS, and their connections, and network of dealers, they would find information that many collectors wouldn't like.

Easy Daniel, freedom of speech on both side's is very important, I understad ur anger dont let it blind you wwith the law, think about how the law is used in this manner...............theres nothing they can do, nor would they. There are to many positions the law has to take than dealing with the diff of broker dealers on grading. I'v done a lot of research to find this out. Please post my add. Thanks Daniel your a true patriot

The problem is that grading is subjective. If they think the coin is MS70 even though it's barely readable, that's not illegal, it's just being stupid. The only way they could actually be charged is if you proved that they had intent to defraud or if they made some sort of guarantee as to the coin's grade and then didn't honor that guarantee. In my opinion, the law is not how these bunko artists should be fought. Education of the collector, rather, is the most important thing.

Education will not prevent greed...........

No, but said greed will find no victims if most or all collectors know to stay away.

It's now common knowledge that coins shouldn't be cleaned, but it didn't used to be. Some coins still get cleaned, but since books, periodicals and general word of mouth have let people in on the secret, most people know not to clean coins, or any antique for that matter.

No one can ever stop Chinese counterfeiting or even false grading by trying to shut down the culprits. Even if it can be proven that a grader is trying to defraud (which it can't), 2 more will sprout in it's place. To defeat the coin scam Hydra, a Hercules is needed, and that Hercules comes in the form of education. If as much energy was exerted educating not only the current collectors, but those of the future, then such absurd scams as buy-a-grade services and Chinese fakes would be hampered. As it is, they are both thriving.

Greed works both ways. One, a seller who doesn't know, or even cares, that they are selling over graded coins. Two, the buyer who thinks they can get a high grade coin for a cheap price. Nonetheless, bother are victims of their own circumstance, and ignorant of how they hurt the hobby, and if not ignorant, then uncaring and unable to see anymore than few inches beyond their own scope of financial inferiority.

I started this website, blogs and forum to help prevent coin collectors from getting ripped off. I have saved a few, while some send emails wishing they would have found my site before they got ripped off, and a very small amount are glad they found my website before they got ripped off. I wish I could do more and reach more people.

I just don't have the money to advertise, or I would be all over the coin publications and TV. I hope to be able to do this someday, and I'm working harder than most people at achieving this goal. It takes more than a temper, a few emails, and posting on forums to stop this over-grading fraud. I know this from experience.

snakerus42069 continues to flood ebay with dozens of outrageously overgraded, harshly cleaned coins (60 currently listed). What really gets me is the ebay feedback he is accumulating; there are lots of POSITIVE feedback entries with comments like "ANGS MS-67? TARNISHED OR BURNISHED RIM OB+RE"; "over graded but ok for price"; "nice coin, but doubt very much it is MS66": "ANGS coins are OK; know up front that they are 20 or more points overgraded."

Then there are the "Neutral" comments: "coin has been circulated...not ms67": "quite a few scraches on coin to be ms68"

And finally, one buyer who left a negative: "Coin has been cleaned, and graded by a fly by night grading system."

Feedback is supposed to help weed out the bad guys, but if buyers recognize a bad seller and leave positive feedback anyway, the system will never work.

I see the same thing. I hope ebay can come up with restrictions on sellers who accumulate so many neg feedbacks during a certain amount of time. Maybe limit their selling privileges until they improve their selling methods. I don't think it can be stopped, but these sellers deserve punishment.

If they get too many negatives, they'll get kicked off of eBay, but that takes a lot of negative feedback.